Night in the ER

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

That was no fun.  Poor baby girl had a horrible tummy ache last night, couldn't walk, hunched up, shaking, lots of pain, distended tum tum. We ran up to the ER and they think it could be the  treats I gave her while practicing yesterday! (everyone is WELCOME to please kick me in the butt!!!!!!!!!  I can only reach my head so haven't been able to kick myself in the hiney). She got an antinausea shot and some tramadol and was able to sleep when we got home this morning and is doing a lot better now but still out of it. I felt so bad for her she was so good at the clinic how awful to be so sick and in pain and blind to boot.  Those treats are going in the trash!

[Cheryl]

Dee Dee...what brand of treats were they????...Poor little girl...I watched her video yesterday...she's so adorable!

[BonniesMom]

Aw, poor baby grrrrrrl!  Can I be honest?  When I watched that video, I was thinkin' to me self, "boy howdy, DD sure is distributing A LOT of treats".  But then I thought, they're only teeny tiny ones.  It will be okay. 

Maybe, though, that wasn't it at all.  Maybe in the future, you could practice with Miss Hallie at dinner time and just feed her her kibbles for rewards.  She could get a whole dinner that way AND lots of rewards. 

[Teresa]

I even thought the same thing. I was wondering if Hallie usually got that many treats, or if Dee Dee was just really excited. Maybe it wasn't the type of treats (unless it was something she hasn't had before) but how fast she was gobbling them up, which caused her to get too much air in her tummy. I did enjoy watching her paint, I just hate that you had to go to the ER.

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

I do cut back on her meals the days we train much, and the treats I was giving her is a complete food so it was substituting for the part of her meal I cut out. But I usually am giving her my home made ones of rice, chicken, canned food, pumpkin, blueberries, green beans, etc. plus a few of these other treats. I ran out so this time was using just the boughten treats. They are Stella and Chewy's freeze dried raw duck dinner discs. Since they are a complete food, they seemed to be ideal for training treats since you don't have to keep them cold like I do my home made ones. And we are always on the go so nice not to have to always bring a cooler. I know some other little dogs on this food only and do great, plus it gets good reviews that I've found anyway but obviously not every food is good for every dog. She does get the same amount of food total each day, (mostly canned food) just when we train a good portion of it is fed then. We've always done that which is why I am suspecting it was the type of treat.

Hallie won't touch kibble. The little Princess! 

She is doing much better tonight though!  She's getting rice only today. My stomach on the other hand is totally on strike. That gets old fast!

[Roberta]

I thought the same to but everything is clear in hindsight..................Dee Dee I know it means using the oven, But I put a skinless chicken fillet ina plastic bag and beat it out thin  and roast in on foil in the oven , no fat etc and wait till it goes brown and crispy. I eat it to don't tell the guys.
Glad to here she is on the mend......................
Roberta

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

I can do that! I was trying to change her from chicken to either duck or lamb, wondering if she has allergies to chicken, but after yesterday I'm going back to chicken!

What is the purpose of beating out the chicken? To get out your frustrations? Works for me!  :thumb:

What do you mean by roast...you mean like, cook it in the oven? On how high of heat and for about how long? I would be grinding it up in the food processor to add to her rice mix for her cookies.

On foil do you mean to wrap it completely in foil or line a cookie sheet or something with foil and lay the chicken on top of that without cover it?

Thanks for the tips I want to find what works best for her and stick with it!

[papbouv]

Remember Mom Praise works better than treats does not cost anything can't make them sick that way treats can be given but just not that many. Glad to hear Miss Hallie is feeling better now you need to quit being so hard on your self you are the best Mom a dog could have ever. When I kick the bucket I want to come back be reincarnated into your dog. Papbouv

[Roberta]

Q    What is the purpose of beating out the chicken? To get out your frustrations? Works for me!  Thumbs Up
A            works for me to........but it makes it thin and cooks quicker and crunchie


Q   What do you mean by roast...you mean like, cook it in the oven? On how high of heat and for about how long

A Roast means after you beat the bejesus out of the fillet (no fat) you lay it flat (with difficulty) on a piece of aluminium ( I was going to write Al ³⁺) foil on the shelf in the middle of the oven, turn oven up to about 190C  (3/4 way up the dial ie 375F)
For how long ....................when  it goes golden  brown and starts to shrivel, turn them over, it usually  takes about 1/2- 3/4 hr. About 20 mins one side then about 10 on the other. You can pre heat the oven

Q  On foil do you mean to wrap it completely in foil or line a cookie sheet or something with foil and lay the chicken on top of that without cover it?
A  No you lay it on top of the foil, if you cover it it steams, you can put it on a tray if you want. I have a fan forced so I found no tray works better.

The idea is to get it looking like a potato crisp ie frito thin and crispy.

robertaI'm making someone to-morrow I'll photograph it, I had to come up with something as Amy can have no fat or fat level less than 3 percent....................it is actually cheaper to make than buy treats anyway. Our pair kill for chicken and the red container in the fridge Amy says is HERS.

[DeeanDave]

Q    What is the purpose of beating out the chicken? To get out your frustrations? Works for me!  Thumbs Up
A            works for me to........but it makes it thin and cooks quicker and crunchie


Q   What do you mean by roast...you mean like, cook it in the oven? On how high of heat and for about how long

A Roast means after you beat the bejesus out of the fillet (no fat) you lay it flat (with difficulty) on a piece of aluminium ( I was going to write Al ³⁺) foil on the shelf in the middle of the oven, turn oven up to about 190C  (3/4 way up the dial ie 375F)
For how long ....................when  it goes golden  brown and starts to shrivel, turn them over, it usually  takes about 1/2- 3/4 hr. About 20 mins one side then about 10 on the other. You can pre heat the oven

Q  On foil do you mean to wrap it completely in foil or line a cookie sheet or something with foil and lay the chicken on top of that without cover it?
A  No you lay it on top of the foil, if you cover it it steams, you can put it on a tray if you want. I have a fan forced so I found no tray works better.

The idea is to get it looking like a potato crisp ie frito thin and crispy.

robertaI'm making someone to-morrow I'll photograph it, I had to come up with something as Amy can have no fat or fat level less than 3 percent....................it is actually cheaper to make than buy treats anyway. Our pair kill for chicken and the red container in the fridge Amy says is HERS.

Thanks for sharing Roberta......I'm going to make some for Sarge and Duggie.  Chicken is a main staple at our house.  Dee

[Barb]

oh nos.... Sending Hallie bucketloads of rayz !!!!   If you feed her kibble...maybe treating her with that, since her tummy is used to it?  hope all is good today !

[doxielady5569128]

Poor Hallie! I'm glad she is better now.

[Barb]

as a follow up to the crunchie chickie treat.... (yummm) - I boil chicken every week, because I add to Brandy's canned food to entice her to eat.  But I also use small nibbles to reward Toby as we are training.....  Sometimes licking mom's fingers is almost as good as a bite !!!  I keep a couple days worth in the fridge, freeze the rest and just thaw a day before I need.... Chickie is a staple in our house too !!!

[Leslie]

awwwwwww, boiled rice for both of you and back to the big bed to rest.    from Pennsylvania.  love you both!

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

I was going to write Al 3+

Just as I suspected, cooking IS like chemistry! No wonder I can't cook, I was never good in chemistry. 
Thanks VERY much for the explanation, I have no excuse now if I muck it up. I will go get some chicken today. Hallie will thank you for it. When I took her to the oncologist to get advice on avoiding cancer with her, she said to take her off chicken since it is the #1 protein dogs develop allergies to. Not that we know she has developed one but she said if she did it would be adding to her summer itchies. I tried lamb but she doesn't like lamb, so was switching to duck and she got sick. So I guess it's back to chicken. I could try bison or rabbit or something but now I'm afraid to do any more changing.

I know some people do train without treats, but it wouldn't work with Hallie. Most of the ones I know that are successful with it, kennel their dogs and bring them out only to work so the dog of course it desperate to do anything with their owner. (some have dogs with termperaments that are sucesssful without but I've rarely seen that, and some with high prey drive can train with toys or balls)  Hallie is literally showered with praise all day long, so praising her for working would not make it nearly as fun or exciting to her as treats do.  i.e., she would have no reason to do the things we're training for as there is no higher reward than she always gets, she may do it but it would be tedious for her and she'd not be a happy worker.

I trained Fred and Jessie the same way, starting in the early 80s, for obedience, etc. When you start training something new, they get a huge jackpot. As they catch on, you wean them off until they are getting little bits of treats. I never wean them off completely, but as we got closer to going in the ring, I would make the times between the treats longer and longer. Once we were done learning something new, and they understood all of the exercises, training time each day is shortened to maybe 5 minutes at most and with a big treat at the end. When we were showing in the ring, with all 3 of them, when we came out of the ring we'd go straight to a container of their breakfast for the reward.

With Hallie just re-learning to paint without her sight, I am starting with a huge jackpot again. As she gets more comfortable with it, I will wean her off. I have always done this, and I always used  healthy treats. This that Hallie got sick from is actually not treats, it's a complete food. I was excited to find it, it seemed like the perfect training treat. It is meant to be fed as their only food. In fact for months now I have been adding it to her daily meals, once it's wet it rehydrates. Plus mixing it in with the homemade treats I make for nosework training, etc. Which is why when I ran out of her homemade treats I never dreamed using just that would have made her sick.

My dogs have always gotten the same amount of food every day, even when training. I just portion out the amount for training, from their regular meals. On nosework class nights, we started with jackpotting the dogs a LOT  so she would get her entire dinner during class. And it's always been treats that are nutritionally complete or close to it, never junk.  So  I never thought this darn food would make her sick when feeding her more of it.

By the way we just got confirmation that she made it into the ORT (odor recognition test) trial Dec 9, they had so many entries I didn't know if we'd make the cut, they cut it off at 90 dogs and we got in. She is going to have a ball nosework is her favorite thing in the world!

[Mike]

I could try bison.

Ooooh, try the bison.  I wanna a video of you wacking it with the mallet!!!!      :verdict:

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

...

[Barb]

I am with you Auntie DeeDee....NOTHING is worth it, if you don't get a snackie after ya do it !!!!!  Treats Rule...even if ya gotta earn them 
Luv,
Toby River


(I use a training treat, and actually crumble it, so when Toby and Rudy get the reward, it is next to nothing...but they LOVE IT !   Rudy is learning to stay in the pen (bad mommy never made him), and crumbled bits of treats mixed up in the blankies...make him RUN right in.....and keep him busy !!!!)

[Guinness]

We're kinda tough here, as I feed The Herd the cheapest kibble I can find. But for treats I buy Pupperoni treats then cut them into tiny 1/4 inch bits. They smell heavenly - a real beefy smell - and everyone loves them. But my crew all have cast iron stomachs.

Auntie Keren

[papbouv]

For anyone that their dog may have allergies kibble with the same usual meat chicken,turkey,beef & lamb there is two new ones out made by California Natural one is Kangaroo & Red Lentils and the other one is Salmon Meal & Peas these two a grain free food from what I can tell but have not studied them yet. California Natural is suppose to be a pretty good food they use fewer ingredients for dogs with allergies.??? Might want to google them and check out the ingredients.

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

Hallie agrees with Toby R.  :thumb: Treats is what makes the whirl go round. Love the idea of throwing crumbles in the blankies for them. I will often toss down a few pieces of rice for Hallie to find, we have been inventing new games since she gets bored so much easier now that she can't watch things out the window. 

Oh man auntie Karen, Hallie would be in the ICU with that diet! She's always had a very touchy tummy. Back when the 3 first came, and I was still trying hard to stay childless, I thought whoever gets this little one is going to have tummy problems on their hands and allergies. Hee hee! Yolks on me! (and very happily so!)

Thanks for that info Papbouv! I did pick up some kangaroo at the natural dog store we shop at but now I'm afraid to try anything different after what just happened since I'm not 100% sure what triggered this. We don't even know if she is allergic to chicken, or any other food, I was thinking she was not allergic to food because her itchies pretty much go away in the winter, but the oncologist suggested it worth a try to switch in case they were contributing some. But I'd rather be safe than sorry don't want another night like that. She hasn't eaten kibble in a few years, I think it must hurt her teeth even though they've been checked multiple times and they look fine. Still I know mine are a lot more sensitive than when I was a young'n so I imagine the pups do too. And a good quality canned food is better for them than kibble. Here is one article.

The debate between canned dog food and kibble has continued since the 2 varieties are on the market.  What are the advantages of canned dog food as the main component of your dog’s diet?  Is dry kibble superior to canned dog food?  Possibly, it is simply personal preference between the two varieties.

To assist you opt, let’s take a peek at the advantages of each type of dog food as half of a healthy and balanced diet for your pet.  To induce the best advice, schedule a visit with the veterinarian to discuss your dog’s diet.  The two of you’ll speak regarding how every kind of dog food will specifically relate to your pet.

Canned dog food, as the main component of your dog’s diet, has gotten a negative stigma over the years.  Several pet house owners feel that the price of canned dog food is high and unappealing, particularly for the larger breeds who need larger amounts of food daily.

A significant advantage of canned dog food is that the quality.  Frequently, you’ll realize that canned dog food offers giant chunks of real meat for your pet.  Fewer additives and fillers are found in most brands of canned dog food.  Knowing the importance of high-quality ingredients, canned dog food actually has its place in an exceedingly healthy, balanced dog diet.

Another advantage of canned dog food in your dog’s diet is palatability.  Dogs will commonly take to canned dog food quickly.  This could be a real advantage when you’re handling a picky eater.

Dogs who have bother with oral health and chewing can realize the moist food easier to eat.  If you note your dog is struggling to eat the kibble diet, then canned dog food may be just the solution to your dog’s diet problems.

Dry kibble conjointly has blessings in a very dog’s diet.  The dry kibble helps to keep your dog’s teeth healthy by removing plaque and tartar.  Wonderful oral health for your pet can be simply maintained with dry kibble as the main element in your dog’s diet.  The moist dog food from cans do not give the identical benefit.

Storage of the dry kibble does not require refrigeration when opening.  This can build traveling along with your pet easier and more convenient. 

Price is however another excuse to think about dry kibble for your dog’s diet.  High-quality dry dog food is out there to pet house owners at a affordable price.

Whether or not you choose dry kibble or canned dog food, you may continually need to talk over the difficulty along with your veterinarian.  Canned food is great for picky eaters and pet’s with difficulty chewing.  Canned food offers high quality ingredients for your dog’s diet.  Dry kibble is inexpensive and helps promote sensible oral health.  Providing your pet with the best nutrition is the primary step in caring for your pet.

[doxielady5569128]

This might help with the allergy question, Dee Dee. When we found out Porky was allergic to chicken, he started scratching everywhere.  Then I noticed hives on his lips, eyes, paws and all over the inside of his mouth.  Very scary!!  Then he started the vomitting, noisy tummy grumbles and the bloody diarrhea. He had us so scared and dropped weight quickly. We went to the vet, and they originally thought it was canine influenza mixed with an allergy to something.  Then they kept him there a few days.  He did fine and we went home. Fed him his dinner (not realizing that was the problem) and he became violently ill all over again.   We have learned to be VERY picky about his food and insist on the best. He has grown out of his chicken allergy, so he can tolerate tiny amounts of it now.  We have him on Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon dry kibble and he has been fantastic on it! They make a great quality food, and we can get it from an internet dealer cheaper than in the store.   We also tried Nature's Logic and saw good results, but it was way too pricey for us.  California Natural seems to be good too, but we haven't tried it.   The only reason I feed dry kibble is because I can't tolerate the looks or smell of the canned foods and Porky's teeth get nasty from not chewing his food.  I think if you suspect chicken as an allergy, you should avoid it until you do the testing at least.  Hopefully her tummy issues stay away now!   

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

Thank you! If anyone knows about allergies first hand, it's you and Porky. Poor guy he is lucky to have a mom to fight so hard for his health.

This makes me think even more she doesn't have an allergy to chicken, (the oncologist didn't really think so either, she just said it's something to try just in case it is a contributing factor). She hasn't had any of Porky's symptoms. Her symptoms have been biting her feet and rubbing her head/ears. Right now with the cold weather, her itchies are 95% less than during the summer. I took her off chicken when her allergies were up this summer and didnt' see any difference either. I think I will go back to the food she likes best and has done well on. Should never have stirred the soup! You are right about the teeth and canned, that is one drawback, I am sure to brush, floss and scrape often.

Thanks for the input that really helped that is why I like this board so much. Hugs to Porky hope his allergies stay at bay too!

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

OK Aunt Roberta, we're about 70 minutes into it. So far one burnt finger (my major driving finger!) but no fire trucks yet.

I may be in trouble since I realized my oven thingie is digital so no knobs to turn 3/4 of the way....so made a wild guess! :)

Please tell me cooking this with my uncles birthday cake is not going to make his cake taste like chicken!!

And WHY is my oven in there beeping at me?? It's been going off for a good 40 minutes maybe the battery will die soon.  :thumb:

[Teresa]

Ummm. Dee Dee. I did get to thinking that unless you have a forced air oven like Roberta, you may want to check the chicken pretty often. I would have also put it on a thin cookie sheet, or better yet one of those thin perforated pizza tins with foil over it. The three quarters way was 375, I think. Seems like I read that.
I love Roberta's instructions. If this works, we will let her write you a complete basic cookbook!

P.S. Please don't try birthday cake with the chicken. If you do, Hallie may be the only one wanting the cake!