Ollie at HOME

Ruth in MT · May 03, 2011, 12:25:46 PM

I picked Mr Oliver, aka Ollie, up yesterday in Missoula , Montana.
We need some time to get used to each other .......................................
Do you think it is a really bad sign that I am on my way to the doctor's office for a Tetanus shot ????????????

Spanish Teckels · May 03, 2011, 12:34:29 PM

Not particularly. He is probably frightened by all the changes and very disoriented. Remember, you knew what was going to happen, he did not. It is always a good idea to keep up to date with tetanus shots anyway, especially those of us who love animals and gardening too.
Btw, he looks very contrite up there on the quilt...maybe he just need to ge used to you being his loving pack leader and supermum.
Male wires are well known for all their excesses. Red is no different but I wouldn't change him for anything in the world.

Barb · May 03, 2011, 12:47:14 PM

Totally agree with Andrea !!! Just go slow with him and let him find his way.....he has 2 weeks to win you over

So many changes for him....he is not sure what to think.

Rudy said that Treats will help :thumb:

We want a minute by minute - LOL...ok, maybe a check in every couple hours

Gail · May 03, 2011, 01:31:58 PM

Oh yes, Tris and Ivy agree that belly love is a good enticement for new love LOL. Good luck Ruth, do persevere. When I first got Holly she acted a little aggressive as she was so unsure of everything and she bit my ex husband (go girl) the first night that we had her.

Ollie, mind your manners sweetie, you have to make a good impression and show what a nice boy you are xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lots of love
Gail, Tris and Ivy

Delia and girls · May 03, 2011, 01:58:04 PM

Umm ... I wouldn't call that a good sign. Bummer! What happened? He's probably scared but for him to react that way to being scared is really not good. Hopefully, it was just a fluke. Luckily, you have 2 weeks to figure that out and he has a good home to go to if he continues to misbehave that way. I know he needs you and you need him, so I hope it works out. But ... if you have to be careful with him for the rest of his life, neither of you could live life to it's fullest.

We got Gretchen as a 4 month old and realized almost immediately that she had temperament issues. We fell in love with her, though, so sending her back was out of the question. She is almost 12 years old now and has not been able to go places that, had she been 'nicer,' she would have enjoyed. I guess I can sum it up by saying that when we lost Ilsa, we really wanted to make her an only child. I tried taking her places that Ilsa used to go to, thinking she was older and maybe calmer, but she quickly reminded me that was a mistake. I love her and wouldn't trade her for the world, but temperament issues are not to be taken lightly. There is no such thing as a perfect dog but if you have to worry about them biting, I'd think twice. And we never worried about her biting us. We even tried doing things (messing with her food while she ate, etc) that would make her bite so we could work on it while she was small and young. She never even tried. Everything and everybody else, however, was fair game!

Sorry this is so long. I don't want you to make a decision you'll wonder about later.

Marcia from MI · May 03, 2011, 02:26:40 PM

The night I brought Sam home he growled and snapped at me and did nip several times, but once he felt comfortable he turned out to be a sweetheart. Once he did snarl at me when I did something he didn't like - I moved my hand down his tummy the wrong way and when I checked with his never mom she told me he didn't like tummy rubs. It took only a few more days until he felt at home. Take it slow and as Rudy says lots of treats, baby carrots Danni says.

Roberta · May 03, 2011, 03:03:17 PM

certainly not good. But it could just be new everything. Give him a few days to settle into a new routine and maybe he needs to know who is in charge. I don't think the going to a home and re homed again helps as I think it is hard on them, Ollie took a while and neutering to be the loving cuddly boy he is now. Did not nip just decided I was his and Nick's things etc were wee'd on etc. We also expected a replacement Angus, but it did happen.

auntydoxzz · May 03, 2011, 04:02:55 PM

Maybe previous owners got rough with him or yanked him around on the leash!! Wonder if it would help if you used a halter instead of a collar? Hopefully its not a question of his having neck problems!!

Kathleen · May 03, 2011, 04:50:20 PM

I hate to admit it, but I have some temperament issues here too. Some of them are understandable (Winston doesn't like little boys because of some boys in our neighborhood that used to throw rocks at him) and some of them are just a nasty reaction to fear and uncertainty (Millie and her ankle nipping with strangers and unruly children in our home), but they aren't fun. If he settles down and doesn't react that way with strangers once he's settled in your home for a few days, he should be okay, but if he reacts that way to every visitor, I'd be concerned. I have to put Millie away when little kids come over.And when strangers come over, I have to hold her until the rest of the dogs calm down from the barking fits. Once the chaos is over, she behaves like a perfect little lady.

Ruth in MT · May 03, 2011, 05:40:47 PM

Quote from: auntydoxzz on May 03, 2011, 04:02:55 PM
Maybe previous owners got rough with him or yanked him around on the leash!! Wonder if it would help if you used a halter instead of a collar? Hopefully its not a question of his having neck problems!!

I like the idea of a harness too , but he won't let me even attatch the leash to his collar. I am afraid to approach him with the harness. Right now the harness and leash are just sitting right next to him. Maybe they will smell ok tomorrow ?

Kelly · May 03, 2011, 06:48:48 PM

Just take it one day at a time! The end of November last year our vets called and said that a female little "DACHSHIE" was brought in because of food aggression and to be put down!!Well the little girl's been here since a week before Christmas and there's no problems what soever.She's attached herself to my Mom. Her name is Molly Jo Graham! Molly was very nervous the first couple of days she was here!

BonniesMom · May 03, 2011, 07:46:16 PM

Ruth, you have 2 weeks to decide. Things could be so different a few days from now. Right now, Ollie is scared. The biting isn't good but hoping it was just a scared reaction to new surroundings. As much as you WANT him, though, if this behavior continues, don't force yourself to take him. It wouldn't be fair to you or him. Take it one day at a time and praise praise praise him for every little good boy thing he does.

When Bonnie first came here, she wouldn't leave her crate and if you reached for her, she got nippy but never serious biting. My rescue friend, Stacey, says the best thing you can do is just sit quietly on a step or on the floor. Don't call him. Don't try to pet him. Just let him come to you on his own terms. Tell him what a good boy he is but don't touch. Then when he is coming to you and staying with you more, softly talk to him and let him smell your hands and then slowly move to touch him gently. Just a thought.

Best wishes!
Sandi

Leslie · May 03, 2011, 07:52:50 PM

Ooooooh, this gives me a hinky feeling. (Obviously he broke the skin or you wouldn't be getting a tetanus shot.)

From experience--'cause Loki nipped me, too, in the beginning, when I tried to take something away from her. Regardless of how the little man is feeling right now--he's been dog-napped, in his mind, actually--you gotta boot camp him for the next two weeks.

You have to FIRST earn his respect as the pack leader. THEN he will love you. (Well, he'll probably love ya anyway, but FIRST be pack leader!!) He will not remember the next two weeks like humans remember events, but this learning curve could be the lynch-pin of your whole relationship. Nothing in life is free. period. If he is a fear biter, respect and trust will just make that behavior melt away.

And I'm not referring to the "incident" that happened last summer with Loki, either I am talking about her disrespect that was result of uneven parenting--the general hootin' and hollerin' and pestering for what she wanted all the time with DH, and she got to me too. BUT! When my dad would visit she would sit at his feet and watch him eat and SAID NOTHING, because he would not tolerate it. And she knew that within five minutes of meeting him. He really was the owner that she needed, I think, in the long run. Loki lacked respect because she was successful at training US.

So, if you have to, get a muzzle, get it on him, and buckle up that leash. Wear gloves and a thick coat with long sleeves and get in there, girl. And don't forget to reward the good behavior! (Like you needed reminding on that one.)

IMHO of course, and I say this with love, and you are a great mama, and I don't mean to sound so harsh, but I do speak from experience with the dog that wanted to manipulate. (and making you afraid to handle him is manipulation to get what he wants--no leash!) And I loved her, I did, but dag, she would sometimes really work my last good nerve.

Because, it's his future, too.

Roberta · May 03, 2011, 11:59:59 PM

yes Leslie and Sandi..Oliver E thought I was his, the vet and breeder said I was to be the big bad one and show leadership he was not allowed to do anything unless he was told and NIck was the good cop, he got the message.
Also brings me to Sandi's point, Amy wanted nothing to do with us when we brought her home st up the garden or under a desk and did not respond, breeder said ignore her................she came around within a few hours, try putting his lead etc in his bed so it gets his smells.
Roberta

auntydoxzz · May 04, 2011, 12:41:28 AM

Just got an idea on this, maybe off the wall, but here goes. If the family that had him had kids, it may be that at the point they took him back to the breeder, a kid that really loved him, put the leash on him, but was crying and desperate about losing him. Then the breeder got him back and she put a leash on him and then handed him to you. So he might equate the leash with sadness from a little human, and also leash means "I am getting dumped from here too. What do you mean, you want to put a leash on me again!!!"

If he equates leash with getting dumped out of his home, then it just might be a fearful thing for someone else to put one on him because he thinks he is losing another home!!

Leslie · May 04, 2011, 06:12:05 AM

Quote from: auntydoxzz on May 04, 2011, 12:41:28 AM
Just got an idea on this, maybe off the wall, but here goes. If the family that had him had kids, it may be that at the point they took him back to the breeder, a kid that really loved him, put the leash on him, but was crying and desperate about losing him. Then the breeder got him back and she put a leash on him and then handed him to you. So he might equate the leash with sadness from a little human, and also leash means "I am getting dumped from here too. What do you mean, you want to put a leash on me again!!!"

If he equates leash with getting dumped out of his home, then it just might be a fearful thing for someone else to put one on him because he thinks he is losing another home!!

yeah, good theory. I think the reason that Zuzu kicks up such a fuss when we goforaride and stop the car is the one time we left her inthe car to grab lunch.

Teresa · May 04, 2011, 06:29:41 AM

I was thinking along the same lines with the leash. I'm sure he has been on one many times in the last few years and hasn't been nipping at his owners each time. Other than the leash issue, does he snuggle with you? Will he play and seem generally happy?
Do you have the number of the people you got him from to see if they have any answers? I'm just curious as to whether there is some trick to putting a leash on Ollie that they forgot to tell you about.

Ruth in MT · May 04, 2011, 08:50:18 AM

Well .... Ollie is happier this morning. He did a little running around and tail wagging. I'm sitting here soaking my hand. (by the way it was a little nip the first night and a quite a BITE the next morning.)
I had good luck putting on the harness last night and we both enjoyed a nice walk.
I can already tell that he doesn't like men. Like really really doesn't like men.
So like you all say, we need to take it one day at a time.

Barb · May 04, 2011, 08:53:22 AM

Ruth? How is it going? All good information provided by everyone...... I am hoping that with a couple days of being in your home, he will settle down. Please keep us posted - we are here for you and hoping for the very best for you and Ollie !

Leslie · May 04, 2011, 09:52:23 AM

Quote from: Ruth in MT on May 04, 2011, 08:50:18 AM
Well .... Ollie is happier this morning. He did a little running around and tail wagging. I'm sitting here soaking my hand. (by the way it was a little nip the first night and a quite a BITE the next morning.)
I had good luck putting on the harness last night and we both enjoyed a nice walk.
I can already tell that he doesn't like men. Like really really doesn't like men.
So like you all say, we need to take it one day at a time.

YAY for walkies! tire that little booger out and bond at the same time.

Barb · May 04, 2011, 12:02:15 PM

YAY !!!! A couple good night sleeps help ! So sorry about your hand...sending rays..... Ollie sounds so much like Toby..... I have a couple scars from nips when Toby first came, and found out very quickly that he does not like men. Any men strangers and he nips at their feet - so I am certain he was kicked. You will most probably never know what all Ollie has endured....just speculate based on his behaviour. Easy days of just bonding between you 2, and my guess he will learn to trust you fairly quickly (hoping so ! :xfinger:), and then you can get a little sterner with him as far as how he should behave. I think I finally got it through MY thick head that they really do like having structure, and YOU being the one in charge !!!!

Sending Ollie some rays too.....it is hard to have so many changes in such a short time.....but oh, sweet boy - you will realize what an AWESOME mommy Ruth is !!!!

Roberta · May 04, 2011, 02:59:58 PM

The MEN thing we worked out with our pair, they don't nip etc just cautious till they know them. Most breeders and those around them in the kennels involved in the pups are females, we spoke to Colleen about it and she now makes a purpose some males to get pups used to men.
Roberta

Delia and girls · May 04, 2011, 03:40:21 PM

Is he food motivated? If so, use it! Make him work for EVERYTHING!!!!!! Make him sit, look at you, anything, before you feed him, give him treats, play with him. Use a treat to get him to put his head through the harness. Hold food in your hand (probably with a thick glove), while you pet him and tell him what a good boy he is. With time, make the treats smaller until there is none and he's still enjoying the petting. While walking, make him come to you (even on leash) and treat him. No sofa time until you feel comfortable with him on the floor, putting his harness/leash on, etc. I know it's hard, but it will show him who is boss.

After we got Cyrus, we had the biggest fight we've ever had - all 3 involved. Gretchen and Elli were shaking, with ears pierced. Cyrus cool as a cucumber, no injuries. Ron's hand bit too, BTW. A VERY good dog trainer told us to do what I just told you. It was hard because I LOVE to cuddle with them on the sofa. I put a lot of cushy dog beds on the floor. As it turned out, it was Gretchen who was bullying him. He just had enough. She's NEVER been put in her place by another dog - really rocked her world. Anyway, we are to the point where they can all be on the sofa again. We are better off now than before the fight because all 3 know we are the leaders and all 3 know their place. the girls pretty much knew this all along. Cyrus would get possessive of certain things, like chewies. Now we just go to grab it from him and he gives it up.

Just wanted to add to the list of good advice. TG you have 2 weeks. I bet it warmed your heart to walk him and see him play. I'm so hoping THAT part of his personality wins out.

Barb · May 04, 2011, 03:57:25 PM

Quote from: Delia and girls on May 04, 2011, 03:40:21 PM
Is he food motivated? If so, use it! Make him work for EVERYTHING!!!!!! Make him sit, look at you, anything, before you feed him, give him treats, play with him. Use a treat to get him to put his head through the harness. Hold food in your hand (probably with a thick glove), while you pet him and tell him what a good boy he is. With time, make the treats smaller until there is none and he's still enjoying the petting. While walking, make him come to you (even on leash) and treat him. No sofa time until you feel comfortable with him on the floor, putting his harness/leash on, etc. I know it's hard, but it will show him who is boss.

After we got Cyrus, we had the biggest fight we've ever had - all 3 involved. Gretchen and Elli were shaking, with ears pierced. Cyrus cool as a cucumber, no injuries. Ron's hand bit too, BTW. A VERY good dog trainer told us to do what I just told you. It was hard because I LOVE to cuddle with them on the sofa. I put a lot of cushy dog beds on the floor. As it turned out, it was Gretchen who was bullying him. He just had enough. She's NEVER been put in her place by another dog - really rocked her world. Anyway, we are to the point where they can all be on the sofa again. We are better off now than before the fight because all 3 know we are the leaders and all 3 know their place. the girls pretty much knew this all along. Cyrus would get possessive of certain things, like chewies. Now we just go to grab it from him and he gives it up.

Just wanted to add to the list of good advice. TG you have 2 weeks. I bet it warmed your heart to walk him and see him play. I'm so hoping THAT part of his personality wins out.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

papbouv · May 04, 2011, 11:01:18 PM

NILF is a good way to train shows the dog you are the boss with out any harshness,yelling or anything bad towards the dog.Sorry to hear about your hand hope it does not get infected and will heal quickly Rays & Hugs to you both.