questions about senior weiners, health, eyesight...etc

[Leslie]

for you owners of senior wieners:  when there is moderate hearing loss, which pitch can be heard BETTER--high or low?  We need to develop a strategy for our gal Loki who is displaying signs of hearing loss.

And more cognitive failure, I am afraid.  She stares into space more frequently, although I don't know how much of that is the hearing loss.

Also, she is increasingly anxious--again, with diminished sight and hearing, who wouldn't be?

Yesterday when I was cleaning off her muddy paws to come in the house she nipped me.  I wasn't looking at her face so I don't know if she warned me or not, but that was an uncommon event.

Our vet recommended Hills b/d kibble.  We'll start that.

She is really happiest when gnashing on a great big beef bone, but ya'll know she would weigh 50 pounds if we let THAT happen.

Ideas, suggestions?  Thanks in advance. 

[Roberta]

With Emma I think she "got" the high pitched sounds, mind you she did stare, but she was blind before that started due to cataracts. I'd try the the food andother thing is using smells on things as maybe if she used her nose more, that is what Emma did. We tried not to change to many things at one time, made sure her things were always in the same place.  Sometimes like elderly humans they have mini strokes and it takes  a few days for the brain to rewire.
Give her a hug from us
Roberta

[Madderoos Mom]

As far as the Cognitive thing, we have our Madison on a prescription called Selegiline (5 mg).  1/2 tablet in the morning.  This is the generic for Ampryl (sp).  It takes a couple of weeks to kick in but it has noticeably helped with the sleeping at night.  We all go to bed around 10 and she doesn't want to get up until 5 or sometimes a little later or earlier.  That's a HUGE improvement to the 3 times a night and not settling in to start the night.  She still spaces and yes, I think she doesn't hear hardly at all.  Still has decent eye sight and an excellent nose and the BEST appetite.  Also I've noticed that since she's been on this, she doesn't drink like a camel like before.  Definitely worth checking into.  Our vet wrote a prescription and I ordered through Drs Foster & Smith.  Relatively inexpensive. 

On another Maddie note, I started using the chest pouch for her today for our walks.  She still loves the idea of a walk, but she tires easy and then digs her paws in and won't move for anything.....except maybe a bird poo.  We tried this for the first time tonight and the Roo loved it.  She must have thought she was in a truck.  Up high and able to see it all.  Bonnie, of course, loved her walk/run with her papa.

Kiss Loki dawg for me.

[David C.]

I think every senior is a little bit different.  I got to see a bit of everything with Max-angel, who went to the Bridge at 17 years, 7 months.   He was in a state of serious decline the last 4 to 6 weeks of his life, and when his back went (the first time in his life), we knew it was time to say goodbye.  If it wasn't his back, something else would have come up as everything was failing...his parts were simply worn out.

My experience with Max's hearing was that the top end went, but, overall, it seemed more like his hearing was fading equally over the entire audio spectrum.   Again, he was probably 80 to 90% deaf when he passed.   It did seem that one ear was worse than the other.

It was clear that Max was suffering from senility and/or dementia.   Again, towards the end, he would find himself under a chair and would just stand there, unsure of how to get himself out of that situation.  He did continue to recognize us all the way up to the end.   Sometimes, when left alone, he would start to howl.   When he was younger as soon as he saw you he would "snap out of it".   It took a bit more cajoling as he got older.   There really was little we could do other than keep him comfortable and keep him in situations that he could control.   We never had the anxiety situations with Max.   From Rudy's passing in June 2005 to Max's own passing in October 2006, Max was an only dog.

The one thing that was undoubtedly anxiety causing for the hoomans was the "old age rollercoaster".   Several times after Max's 15th barkday, he would start "nosediving", and we thought a trip to the Bridge was imminent.  Eventually, Max would gather himself up and recover, although, never quite to the 100% of where he was before the nosedive.   Then things would level off and be normal for a while until another nosedive occurred.   Like the previous one, he would recover, but not to where he was before...and slowly, like the setting sun, Max inexorably got closer to the Bridge until the final nosedive.   

Max's final action was to give us kisses as the tranquilizer was administered.  He was letting us know we were doing the right thing.  Little did we know that as Max was heading to the Bridge, the Zs were sitting in a kennel waiting for a new forever horme.   Max's final action brought the Zs into our lives.
 

It's a tough time when our furkids go into the final chapters of their lives.  Cherish the good moments, and be thankful for a lifetime of happy memories.  It's too easy to get caught up in the final months or years of their lives and forgetting the memories of their entire lives.

[papbouv]

Salmon oil /Fish oil is suppose to help with Cognitive behaviors thats what my vets said that had been to a seminar.

[Delia and girls]

Sorry, I have no suggestions. Just wanted to say, give Loki a kiss and hug for me.

[scootersmom]

Alas, Leslie, I have no wisdom to offer, but I do offer hugs to you and Loki.

And David, what you wrote is beautiful.  I am sitting here with tears in my eyes. 

[Leslie]

I think every senior is a little bit different.  I got to see a bit of everything with Max-angel, who went to the Bridge at 17 years, 7 months.   He was in a state of serious decline the last 4 to 6 weeks of his life, and when his back went (the first time in his life), we knew it was time to say goodbye.  If it wasn't his back, something else would have come up as everything was failing...his parts were simply worn out.

My experience with Max's hearing was that the top end went, but, overall, it seemed more like his hearing was fading equally over the entire audio spectrum.   Again, he was probably 80 to 90% deaf when he passed.   It did seem that one ear was worse than the other.

It was clear that Max was suffering from senility and/or dementia.   Again, towards the end, he would find himself under a chair and would just stand there, unsure of how to get himself out of that situation.  He did continue to recognize us all the way up to the end.   Sometimes, when left alone, he would start to howl.   When he was younger as soon as he saw you he would "snap out of it".   It took a bit more cajoling as he got older.   There really was little we could do other than keep him comfortable and keep him in situations that he could control.   We never had the anxiety situations with Max.   From Rudy's passing in June 2005 to Max's own passing in October 2006, Max was an only dog.

The one thing that was undoubtedly anxiety causing for the hoomans was the "old age rollercoaster".   Several times after Max's 15th barkday, he would start "nosediving", and we thought a trip to the Bridge was imminent.  Eventually, Max would gather himself up and recover, although, never quite to the 100% of where he was before the nosedive.   Then things would level off and be normal for a while until another nosedive occurred.   Like the previous one, he would recover, but not to where he was before...and slowly, like the setting sun, Max inexorably got closer to the Bridge until the final nosedive.   

Max's final action was to give us kisses as the tranquilizer was administered.  He was letting us know we were doing the right thing.  Little did we know that as Max was heading to the Bridge, the Zs were sitting in a kennel waiting for a new forever horme.   Max's final action brought the Zs into our lives.
 

It's a tough time when our furkids go into the final chapters of their lives.  Cherish the good moments, and be thankful for a lifetime of happy memories.  It's too easy to get caught up in the final months or years of their lives and forgetting the memories of their entire lives.

ah, David, I am perfectly prepared for the roller coaster. It's what I signed up for, to take care of a dog for their wholes lives, no matter what. (My biggest fear would be aggression toward Zuzu.) Sometimes I KNOW that she is anxious because she can't see me--when I am in another room or I have the (heaven forbid) bathroom door closed. But that's simple.  I just find her and give her a pet and all is well.

DH, however, has created his own monster.  for years, when Loki would start to pester him, he would repeat "I don't have anything!! I don't have anything!" and THEN would get her a cookie/chewie/bone to shut her up.  My repeated pleas to get him to stop this behavior didn't work but FINALLY SOMEBUDDY ELSE told him the same thing. :BangHead:  But too late now, she is patterned and with the senility creeping in, the pattern cannot be reversed.

(There is a weird parallel here with a family member whom I BEGGED for years to get into therapy.  Now that Alzheimer's is taking over, the familiar patterns of fear and anxiety are getting worse.)

so, huh.  I guess there are no fixed answers, just like humans, "we're in for the ride."  treat the symptoms you can, and learn to adjust. 

[Merion]

Good to hear the meds are helping with the sleeping at night.  David is right, every one is a little different. 

Since we have been taking Zack for walks he has been sleeping better through the night  and we are going a little farther every day. I would like a stroller or something so when he gets tired we can give him a ride for a while but for now until his speed get faster we are just walking slower. He can see a little but the treats right in front of him he finds by smell not seeing them.  He wags his tail when we go for walks and if you reach to pet him or massage him.  Since the ear infection is cleared up he seems like he hears somethings we say, not sure exactly what tone it is.

He loves his treats and even the mean little sister Zena unless we have food or treats or his toys involved.
We have been giving him lots of hugs and kisses and treats.
Not that he is getting more spoiled.

Just enjoy Loki..... it is better than the terrible twos when they got into everything.  :verdict:

Merion & the ZZ's

[Marcia from MI]

Sam Angel slept most of the time or sat staring into space.  Eddie was the walker and would pace, get stuck and when I would free him pace again.  Sam got mean only once and luckily it was with me so I knew what to do, but Eddie never got aggressive, just lost in his own AU.   

[Barb]

The one thing I love about this board is all the discussions about everything...AND being able to go back and find it....I hope bumping this back up does not upset anyone....I know that it may bring up some sad memories..... but I am now dealing with alot of these issues with my Brandy.  She is now 15 1/2 and in the last year, I have really seen her health digress.  For the last couple months she has been very restless - meaning she wanders around, and walks in circles A LOT.  I know her sight is gone, or that she can just see shadows - she will walk into a corner, or a wall and just stand there.  Up until a couple weeks ago, she and Rudy had the run of the house, but one day I didn't see her on my critter cam for awhile, and the other 3 that were penned up seemed sort of restless, so I ran home.  She had gotten wedged in behind the crate that Toby eats in.  A year ago, she would have realized she could push on through, but this time she felt trapped.  She had been there awhile, because she had pooped.  Scared the poo out of me...I was so worried not being able to see her.  She is now in an x-pen when I am gone, but is still restless walking the crate...

I have blocked off most of the corners (like between the refrigerator and the wall), because she goes in and can't get out.  If I can't see her, I am constantly going to find her - but that is ok......  I know when she FINALLY settles down in the evening she is exhausted. 

She just had 2 teeth taken out last week (2nd dental this year - ACK !) - and I thought maybe her restlessness was related to that discomfort...but she is still doing it.  In the evenings, she will settle down on my lap, and 5 minutes later be wanting down to walk around. I just let her, because struggling with her doesn't help.  She is still eating well (I hand feed her ) and still makes the effort to go outside to pee and poo.  Once we settle down about 10:30 - 11 at night, most nights she sleeps through the night.


So I know it is not time to make any decisions yet - I just want something to make her be more relaxed.  When she went in for her dental, I had talked to the vet about it and told him I remembered this thread and would find out the name of the meds that Sandi had used.  Anyhoo - sorry to be so long winded..... just wanted to get your input - always most appreciated !

[BonniesMom]

It's so sad when our babies get in the elderly stage of life.  Sweet Bran Bran.  What you are experiencing is soooo much like what we went through with Maddie.  Just love 'em and snuggle on 'em.  You'll know when it's time.

On that note, I thought I was imagining it yesterday but it's a new day and Miss Bonnie seems to not be feeling well.  She just seems to want to sleep and be burrowed under the quilt.  She seems very subdued and just acts like she's not feeling good.  She's 13.  It's so hard to see our "kids" not feel frisky or see them age---with all that goes with it.

Snuggles to Brandy.

[Leslie]

Oh, Barb, this is sad to hear.  Loki's anxiety really ratcheted up one day when we had workers in the house--kinda like the dental for Brandy. I have read that they become increasing unable to cope with changes in the normal routine.

The only thing to do is restrict her from getting herself in trouble, you just have to do it.  The anxiety, I don't know WHAT to do.  We had some success with anti-anxiety meds and melatonin to help Loki sleep through the night. A little Valium seriously goes a long way. First, it impacts the situation right away and then, there is no anxiety "hangover."

Keep an eye on the interactions with other dawgs. I know you know Loki's story...

and everything is okay.  Really. Just love her. It's a heartbreak, I know, but a good cuddle really takes the sting out of it 

[Barb]

It's so sad when our babies get in the elderly stage of life.  Sweet Bran Bran.  What you are experiencing is soooo much like what we went through with Maddie.  Just love 'em and snuggle on 'em.  You'll know when it's time.

On that note, I thought I was imagining it yesterday but it's a new day and Miss Bonnie seems to not be feeling well.  She just seems to want to sleep and be burrowed under the quilt.  She seems very subdued and just acts like she's not feeling good.  She's 13.  It's so hard to see our "kids" not feel frisky or see them age---with all that goes with it.

Snuggles to Brandy.

Sending BonBon some rays !!!  Hopefully she just had a down day...... Thanks for the support - it IS so hard to watch them age......  I miss when I would say - Nite Nite time...and Bran would run full out down the hall, up the ramp and on the pillow !!! Now, anytime I am not right there with her - I make sure she is on the floor - or she will walk off the side of the bed, or the couch......

[Barb]

Oh, Barb, this is sad to hear.  Loki's anxiety really ratcheted up one day when we had workers in the house--kinda like the dental for Brandy. I have read that they become increasing unable to cope with changes in the normal routine.

The only thing to do is restrict her from getting herself in trouble, you just have to do it.  The anxiety, I don't know WHAT to do.  We had some success with anti-anxiety meds and melatonin to help Loki sleep through the night. A little Valium seriously goes a long way. First, it impacts the situation right away and then, there is no anxiety "hangover."

Keep an eye on the interactions with other dawgs. I know you know Loki's story...

and everything is okay.  Really. Just love her. It's a heartbreak, I know, but a good cuddle really takes the sting out of it 

thanks Les.... I am going to call my vet tomorrow and see about any meds to just help her relax while she is awake..... and I tell ya, I really have learned patience through her...... but she is totally worth it   

[BonniesMom]

Hey Les, good call on the not being able to deal with changes point.  We are about to have new flooring put down in our mobile home which will involved lots of hammering and sawing.  All of this will be done while we're at work.  Thankfully, we thought ahead on this one and will board Bonnie either with my friend, who has two dachsies whom she is familiar with OR, at the least, in a boarding facility during the day until the job is done.  This weekend, we were scurrying around getting ready for a house sale - since we don't have a garage, we had our SALE indoors.  Even that got her all skittish and weird.  I think she thought she was going to get stepped on.  Poor babies.  They do like a nice calm sameness.  It makes them happy.

[Kari]

We dread the old age roller coaster but know some day it will happen and we will just take the ups and downs. Penny turns 9 this year so we are still a way off from it but know some day it will come. Hugs and rays to everyone...

[papbouv]

Dogs do get Alzheimer s just like people do Gizmo my old Papillon had it she made it to 14 & 1/2 years old she finely quit eating I tried all her favorite foods nothing worked,she did not know us,had been in diapers for about 2 years, got lost in the house. I let her be with us too long my fault she was doing the roller coaster thing. Very hard to know for sure when to let them go when there are no signs of pain Gizmo had periods all though her life of not eating she also had Reflux disease.

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

Our babies are our best days and our worst days, it is so heartbreaking when these times come. So far I haven't had a really senior dog-child, I've only had 3 in my adult life and they only lived to 6 and 10 and now Hallie at 11...but Sam our little doxie I grew up with, made it to 16 and he got senile, it was so hard to see. I hope you find some meds or other treatment for Brandy that work please keep us posted and let us know? Hang in there!

[Merion]

My friend Deb has found that with her old dog that has vision problems that using the clicker seems to get through to her and she can find Deb easier.

I actually set the bed up so that Zack had to go over me to get to the edge so he wouldn't fall off. People wonder why the headboard is at the foot of the bed not by the wall. 

Hope you have more up days than down days!!!!! 
Merion & Zena

[vferraro99]

This is, as Barb knows, a very touchy subject for me.  I lost Tinha to dementia, and Leo had a stroke a month before we had to let him go to the Bridge.  I know exactly what you're going through, Barb, and it's no fun to see our furkids get old and go through this.

They don't like change, so try to get BranBran as much in the old routine as you can, and blocking certain places so she cannot get stuck is a great idea.  It is sad, and by what you describe it looks like she still has some time to spend with you.  Treasure this as much as you can.  *Hugs*

[Barb]

Thanks all for the tips, and mostly for the support..... A clicker would be a good idea if Bran's hearing was in good shape - sadly that has gone too.....  I just walk close to her and she catches my scent...and then walks all over in between my feet - LOL !!!  We just take each day at a time, and address things as they come up.  Love ya'll !

[PattyInAK]

We noticed Alex getting hard of hearing last summer, he was 13 years old at the time.  He does respond to a high-pitched whistle, or the clapping of hands.  It seems that since Alex has begun to lose his hearing he can't find me sometimes when I am outside with him, so I have to clap my hands or wave my arms.  I think Willy is just now starting to lose his hearing a little bit.

[Leslie]

Oh, one more thing, in relation to hearing loss, I tried to remember to stomp my feet when trying to get Loki's attention or when approaching her while aspleep. She could feel the vibrations, 
The senior thing --it's all about adjusting to new circumstances. Which, in your case, might be a bit easier since your kids are better behaved and trained than our little Ms.  :crazyeyes:

[Barb]

Oh, one more thing, in relation to hearing loss, I tried to remember to stomp my feet when trying to get Loki's attention or when approaching her while aspleep. She could feel the vibrations, 
The senior thing --it's all about adjusting to new circumstances. Which, in your case, might be a bit easier since your kids are better behaved and trained than our little Ms.  :crazyeyes:

If you are talkin' to me about better behaved...      We are dealing with pack order with the Fab Fivey's.....Toby and Rudy. So actually some professional training/obedience is now coming into the picture for Toby.  He is a hard headed boy, but very smart and I think he is the true alpha...but Rudy has been here much longer - so I am the one that needs to be trained.... to recognize their pack order...and still have ME be the ultimate. 

Stomping feet is a good idea - because many times I have to come up behind Bran and pick her up and re-route her, or just pick her up.  And it totally is about adjusting to the new circumstances......

I am just pleased to have so many friends to discuss and share with....  Love ya'll !