scooter

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 09:42:49 AM

Hi! Wow, it's been awhile...again. I am sorry - things have been crazy here - since last fall it's been a constant battle with Scooter's dental disease and, well...today is Scooter's tenth birthday, but it's a bittersweet day.

I just got the news from the vet yesterday that they want to pull out ALL of Scooter's teeth, including all the healthy ones on the bottom. I was not prepared for this, and it breaks my heart to think of what this means for him. There have been many tears in our household - from me and from my roomates - and I am just plain exhausted, tired of fighting, tired of trying to keep him healthy, tired of watching him suffer through surgeries and recoveries (he just had four teeth pulled in December), tired of trying to figure out how to pay for them. Tired of feeling like I'm failing as his guardian and friend. I'm supposed to start calling around for second and third opinions today; to contact some specialists, a holistic vet, and even the vetrinary school a couple hours away...but it all just seems like too much and what's the point anyway? I need a good sleep, but I can't sleep because I just lay there with him and worry about him and am terribly sad, thinking of having to mutilate his little face because nothing, nothing I do, seems to help him anymore.

And I am so angry, at life, at my financial circumstances, at everything. Because it's not fair that he has to go through all of this. It's not fair that he has to hurt. It's not fair that he has to endure hardships, or go through the rest of his life without being able to eat un-pureed ham, or chew on his beloved rawhides, or drink easily, or even keep his tongue in his mouth. Will he even be able to give me puppykisses afterwards? I know it's selfish of me to worry about that, but every little thing about this situation is upsetting me. I just can't stand that life seems to be picking on my dog; and I honestly would rather have every tooth pulled from my own head before having this happen to him. At least I would understand what's going on. And I could have fake teeth. And I would be making the choice for myself. He is totally dependent on me and on the whims of fate and all he knows is he hurts sometimes and he's going to be taken to a strange place and go to sleep and wake up and be in pain and be all toothless and hurt a lot and it will be a hard recovery (especially if the last surgery was any indication) and that is NOT FAIR.

I know there is no use in fighting the reality of the situation, or crying about fairness. I know that. And I know that dogs recover from this kind of operation and they can lead happy lives and they adjust to thinks probably even better than we do as humans. But it just all feels very hopeless right now. And I'm sorry to come in and just vent all over the place but I knew you all would understand...

I just don't know what to do next. Poor Scooter. Does anyone else have any experience with having a full-mouth extraction done on their pup?

Rich · January 21, 2009, 10:03:49 AM

I'm so sorry to hear about Scooter's problems. Everything you are feeling is exactly what all of us feel when bad things happen to our little one. I've been through them all - laying awake at night wondering what to do - projecting all the worst scenarios in my head - feeling guilty somehow because I've not been able to protect one who loves and trusts me unconditionally from the bad things that happen in this world. If you let it, this kind of worry can make YOU sick. I'm still feeling the physical effects of the last three weeks of our Stormy's life who we lost the day after Thanksgiving. All you can do is make the best informed decision you can and stand by it.

But on the brighter side, you are right, Scooter can't project into the future, he can't worry, and once he has recovered from procedures, he can't think "why me?" He will simply do what dogs do and adapt - and once adapted he will continue to be your happy loving companion. At the Midwest Dachsiefest I met a little fellow who had been rescued from a puppy mill and had lost half of his lower jaw. He was every bit as happy and loving as any of the other dogs there.

Good luck to you and Scooter. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

JetEd73 · January 21, 2009, 10:11:18 AM

Thats a bad situation to be in. I feel for you.

It seems I'm always the one to ask the tough questions around here so....

Is removing all his teeth going to be a "life improving" surgery?

Will it stop the problem? ....or just "buy" another year or so with the dog?

Will he be happy after recovery?...a dogs life is all about quality.

I think those are the questions you need to ask yourself.

as my vet says, "if I knew then what I know now, I would not have made my pet suffer for my own selfish reasons."

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 10:12:06 AM

Rich - thank you so much - I feel terrible for even worrying about how I feel about all this stuff that Scooter's going through. Especially when he's the one who's going through it. (If that makes sense - I seem to be a bit short on eloquence at the moment) But it's an incredible weight off my shoulders knowing it's not just me who feels this way, the guilt and sadness...and I really appreciate you sharing your experiences and your wise counsel on the matter. Not to mention the prayers and encouragement.

I'm also so, SO sorry to hear about losing Stormy. I don't even know what to say, except to pass along a virtual hug and sincerest wishes for the grief and physical affects on you from the last three weeks of his life to abate as the days go by. How are you feeling?

Clarese · January 21, 2009, 10:18:24 AM

Hey Noel,

I'm sorry that you and Scooter are going through this. Conrad had all but one of his front teeth (to his canines) and one of his back teeth pulled a couple of years ago. He adjusted fine to that, but I imagine it would take more if he had his back teeth removed, as well. While I understand your frustration and fear over having Scooter's teeth extracted, I honestly think that it matters much more to you than it will to him. If he is anything like Conrad, he probably doesn't do much chewing of his food anyway!

I would get second opinions regarding the need to pull healthy teeth - unless it is a strong probability that any remaining teeth will suffer the same fate very soon, it seems extreme to pull them all.

I hope everything works out for Scooter.

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 10:24:09 AM

Those questions are tough, but all very valid. And they've been running in frantic circles in my mind ever since I found out.

The vet seems to think that removing the teeth will be life improving, in that hopefully it will stop the repeated cycle of abcess/infection/swelling/pain/extraction/pain and recovery that Scooter has been going through. Which has accelerated over the past year. We are worried that repeated attempts to "put him under" for surgeries will be detrimental to his health, too, as he gets older. So this is somewhat of a gamble - take the teeth now vs. trying to take them later and hope he survives the procedures. There's also the concern that all these infections as they've happened have taken a toll on his system, building up over the years. Even though I brush his teeth daily, use medicated mouthwash and get that dental vaccine and do "pulse therapy" with antibiotics, he still seems to have a constant low-grade infection going on in one part of his mouth or another. Which has now moved to his nose, which is leaking some pretty nasty stuff and that alarms me.

There is also concern, on the vet's part, that Scooter will develop infections that are resistant to antibiotics, and while he didn't tell me specific consequences of that, he did say it would be "very bad".

It does seem that the problem is centered around his upper teeth, and that's the impetus behind removing them. The lower ones have ZERO problems, but apparently you can't leave in the lowers if there are no uppers. I had no idea about that; and I don't like the thought of yanking out all those sound teeth and putting him through that pain if there's any way I can fight this. As for how much time it will buy me? I don't know. Scooter is ten...which is old, but not horribly old. My last Dachshund lived to the ripe old age of 17. If whatever poison has lived in his system for so many years, on and off, hasn't done permanent damage to his heart or other organs, I suppose he could have many years left. I just don't know for sure, and that's a big part of my stress.

As for quality of life, I am hoping to get feedback from other people who have dogs with no teeth and see how they adapt. The vet assures me he will still be able to eat, but what about drinking? What about treats and toys? What about his tongue? Is it bad/unhealthy for it to be outside the mouth?

I absolutely do not want to make Scooter suffer for selfish reasons. But nor do I want to deny him a fighting chance at a pain-free few years for the same kind of reasons. I feel very afraid of making the wrong choice, either way. I just want to know the right thing to do and the best thing for him.

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 10:31:20 AM

I think you're probably right - once he would get through the recovery (the last one was pretty tough), he'd probably goof about, happy as ever. Or at least, I really hope he would. I feel very selfish for even freaking out about this, but it is just head-bangingly frustrating to try and do everything right and still not have it work. I also do not like going into the decision-making process without being fully informed and I just don't feel like I know enough to make a good choice at the moment. Grrrr.

I know you're absolutely right about this: Scooter hardly chews his food at all. He does chew his crunchy treats (which are supposed to help his dental health HAHAHAHA) and his rawhides. But dinnertime? He pretty much simply inhales what I put down and goes on his merry way.

He's only got 7 or 8 teeth left up top now anyway. I really am unsure why taking these few would require taking all the bottom ones. (and yes, he, like Conrad, has adjusted to being semi-toothless)

Getting a second opinion is a very good plan. Getting a good night's sleep so I can be a little more clear-headed is probably a very good idea as well.

By the by, it's great to see you here! And Conrad too! As handsome as ever, that boy...*g* How are you??

Clarese · January 21, 2009, 10:37:34 AM

I totally get it. It just sucks to have to go back and make the same decisions over and over gain! If you do end up having to have the full extraction, once you get over the shock of having a "country dawg," I think you and Scooter will be fine.

Conrad is doing well. He and Finn are going to be nine on Saturday! I can't believe that.

Send me a PM with your email address - we can catch up.

Mike · January 21, 2009, 10:43:37 AM

Hi Noel

I'm sorry to hear of Scooter's problems. Clifford will be 15 in May and he had 4 teeth pulled in Nov (now totalling 7 in all) and I think there are still issues with some molars on one side. It's so difficult to hear this about our little friends and have to make the decision on their behalf. Rich is certainly right in that they will never say "why me". I know that Scooter will continue to give you kisses to show his gratitude for taking his pain away.

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 10:47:19 AM

Ah yes. And he shall be called Gums McMushmouth...

Nine! Wow, yes, it is hard to believe. I am trying to avoid thinking about how old I will turn on Saturday...egad. Happy Birthday Conrad! And sweet spotty Fim. Aw...I still have a picture of the boys up at home.

PM coming your way. And thanks again for the Words of Wisdom!

doxielady5569128 · January 21, 2009, 11:01:53 AM

I'm so sorry to hear about Scooter! Try not to worry too much (yea right!) and take care of yourself too. I can't give you any helpful advice because I haven't ever been in that situation myself, but I can say feel free to vent here ANYTIME!! Please keep us updated on scooter and whatever you decide to do. We'll be praying for you and scooter.

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 11:28:04 AM

Hello Mike and Clifford! Good to see/hear from you...

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement. Scooter has only about 7 or 8 teeth left up top...and he really does seem to be doing well with being semi-toothless. (which still makes me wonder why having only a few less up there would mean having to take out all the healthy ones below)

I'm sorry to hear Clifford is having problems, still. Is there any swelling/pain? Or is he having the weird nasal leakage that Scooter has? I hope that Clifford's problems turn out to be as minor as possible, and will be thinking good thoughts for him in the interim.

Again, thank you. I truly hope I can do the right thing for Scooter. I feel so bad for him, but there is a very valid point in the idea that he will probably waste no time saying "why me". I should take a page from his book...

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 11:31:16 AM

Thank you so much, doxielady! It means a lot. *hugs*

cheryl186 · January 21, 2009, 12:30:41 PM

Noel, I too am so sorry to hear about Scooter's dental problems and the infections. I will be keeping you and Scooter in my prayers for a quick surgery and speedy recovery. And like Doxielady, if you want to vent.....feel free......there are times we all do!!

scootersmom · January 21, 2009, 02:09:18 PM

Cheryl, thank you! It helps immensely to have others who understand and will listen to my ramblings. And your prayers and thoughts are truly appreciated! I really hope to avoid doing such a drastic surgery...maybe the specialist will have some sort of miracle up his sleeve...

AnnieofNJ · January 22, 2009, 09:19:59 AM

Hi Noel, so sorry for both you and Scooter. Let me tell you about my Trooper. He was a rescue from a backyard breeder who never took care of him, and once he became ill, she didn't want him anymore. Fortunately, I was working in a vet clinic and the rescue group brought him to me at work. Well, I had the vet check him out right away and she found he had a severe bacterial infection of his gums. He was put on meds and scheduled for surgery to have all his teeth removed. He was one very sick boy. The operation didn't go as well as planned as the infection had weakened his jawbone as well. So the vet could remove all but one canine tooth because his lower broke. I cannot tell you how many tears I shed over this baby and the hours of laying on the floor next to him. But after four operations and weeks of recovery, I now have the most loving little doxie boy ever. Trooper has been with me for three and half years now and has adjusted to having no teeth quite well. I only buy soft treats and I cut them into small pieces. I soften his dry food with warm water. He is now a healthy, happy dachshund.

We send rays to Scooter and hugs to you. We hope all goes well.

Annie & the New Jersey Doxie Gang

Norman · January 24, 2009, 02:40:18 PM

I feel for you and Scooter.Rays to you and your friend.

Madderoos Mom · January 24, 2009, 03:53:53 PM

Noel! I sure miss seeing you around here. YOU TOO, CLARESE!

I have no words of wisdom but I do think Rich put it best. Dogs live in the here and now. Once he heals up, he'll forget that he's a mushmouth country dawg. What he WILL know is....he's not hurting and that will improve his life and disposition greatly. They say that the health of a canine mouth has TONS to do with the overall health of a dog. With the teeth gone, if that's what it takes, you might see a brand new frisky Scooter. I'm sorry you've been having a rough time. I treasure you and am glad you poked in to talk things over with your friends here on the wienerboard.

Sandi

Madison 11 New rescue, Bonnie approx 9.....acts like 5.

Barb · January 25, 2009, 05:20:36 PM

Great post Rich.... Sending mega rays to Scooter and hugs to mommy. Those furkids are so in the moment, and they do adapt to what ever happens. They leave the worrying to us. Please keep us posted and we are here for both of you. We all have big shoulders and will listen any time.

scootersmom · January 26, 2009, 10:11:25 AM

Annie, Basswipe, Sandi, and Barb ~ thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for your responses...Annie, I can't tell you how much hearing about your own experience has helped me in preparing for what might be coming for Scooter. It is a tremendous relief to think that even if he lost every tooth and the recovery was difficult, he has a chance of being okay. That's all I want - I don't want to put him through this unless it's the best thing for him. I just want to give him a fighting chance, and it's so scary...the responsibility of taking care of him through this, because he is depending on me to make the right choice. Trooper's recovery is an inspiration.

Can you tell me, does he have any problems drinking? Does he have any problems with his tongue now that he doesn't have teeth to keep it safe in his mouth?

Sandi - I am sorry I haven't been around - I've missed you and the others - thank you for your kind thoughts and I want you to know I am so very grateful for your friendship! *hugs*

AnnieofNJ · January 26, 2009, 02:14:15 PM

Quote from: scootersmom on January 26, 2009, 10:11:25 AM
Can you tell me, does he have any problems drinking? Does he have any problems with his tongue now that he doesn't have teeth to keep it safe in his mouth?

Hi Noel, Trooper has no problem drinking. Since I add water to his food, he is also getting liquid that way. His tongue does stick out, but he looks so cute. I always worry that the tip of his tongue would get too dry, but he seems to know what to do to keep it moist. Here's a picture of him taken this summer. I posted it once before, but you may not have seen it. Annie

scootersmom · January 27, 2009, 12:57:00 PM

Annie - thank you so much! Trooper is SUCH a handsome boy!

He reminds me of Sparky, my last Doxie. It's good to hear that even if Scooter loses all teeth he will be able to easily eat and drink and keep his tongue from drying out - I was really worried that his quality of life would suffer. I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us!

Scooter had 12 teeth removed yesterday, by the way. He still has a few left, here and there, but it's looking like canned food for him from here on. Which, incidentally, makes him very happy.

scooter

Madderoos Mom