So....last night we had another all nighter. Same pattern, hyper alert, restless, etc. She finally settled in around 4:30am. This time there was no precipitating "event" like the first time, but I had noticed last evening she just was not herself--we know our furkids, she just didn't see to be "all there."
So this morning, I proceeded with the regular routine, and was watching her. She responded to two commands, but again, she's still not, "there." She was quite ambulatory ('cause ya always gotta be vigilant for that possible back problem), although the hair at the base of her tail was raised. She did look a little uncomfortable when I petted her in that spot.
Before I leave for work, they both generally find their spot on the blue blankie on the floor and they get a cookie. I was trying to encourage Loki to come onto the blankie and very gently reached under her two front legs to pull her forward/down. She did an "air snap" at me.
Now, stupid me, I did not x-pen her, (I was like halfway to work and already late when I finally thought of it--duh sleep deprived mom). I will pen her for the next couple of days.
BUT!! Here is my question! It seems that I remember maybe one of the Bratpack dogs that got aggressive in her old age--Laurie, any input? Anyone else with senior senile aggression issues?
DH and I have had a general discussion on the criteria for end of life care, and when we would consider helping either of our kids to the bridge,. I think that SIGNIFICANT aggression toward the other dog AND humans would play a part in this decision, yes?
We are also considering --based on quality of mental health functioning issues-- that if there is another need for surgical intervention what we would do. Because, seriously, how do you provide significant post-surgical-care for a mentally impaired dog? (This would be so much EASIER if they could talk.)
Whew. I am trying to stay in the now, but because DH is fairly impervious to reality at times, I need to present all the possibilities to him and open the discussion.
Input? Ideas? Suggestions?
I know I can count on you all for a healthy discussion here. That's what I love about you guys!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so sorry to hear about this! I'm sorry I can't be of much help to you with this one. I would think agression would be a big factor in your decision of when its time. I think you should definately check into any and all solutions for that issue that you could find. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job!! It just stinks that you and your family are having to go though this!! I feel kind of helpless since I can't give any advice to you, but I can pray for all of you. :pray: Thanks for keeping us posted on how Loki is doing.
This is just horrible Les. How old is Loki? Rich once said something that stuck with me, when they are younger they give to us, when they get older it's our turn to give back to them. It's hard as nails though and it happens WAY too fast...
Well one way to look at the aggression is it's not only for the sake of those around her but also she can't be that happy if she feels she has something to be aggressive about. Not that she's at that point right now! Her aggression is only sporadic but that definitely would play a role in making a decision for her sake. It doesn't sound like you are that close to having to make that decision yet though at least I hope not!
My vet also said something that made me think once, that often it comes down to how much the owners can take, how much suffering they can stand to see their pet in, how long they can do things like clean up messes, the stress of trying to get them to eat, etc etc whatever the situation is. Her thoughts are it's not that important to the pet as they don't understand things the way we do, they live in the moment so much they just deal with the here and now. I am not describing it as well as she did but it made sense at the time, that there is no right or wrong exact moment the decision would be best, there are a lot of variables on both sides that play into it. And it is different for everyone. Bottom line, no need to feel guilty although we always do find a reason to.
The thought of the surgery is a hard one too. I sure hope it doesn't come down to that and you have to make that decision....keep us posted on her and what your thoughts are this kind of thing so sucks.
Sorry to hear this, Leslie, how long has the "out-of-it" thing being going on? When my last two dachsies were up at 15 and 17 years they would be vacant for a few days and tehn snap out of it again. This went on for about the last 2 years, on and off. Toby used to snap if you "surprised" him by going to stroke him or pick him up without letting him know first. We finally worked out that his hearing, sight and smell were fading so he needed a little gentle reminding before we actually touched him.
It´s impossible to say what you should do from way over here and each littl one is so different anyway. I´d monitor her movements to see whether she´s just stiff and slowing or really in some pain. Can appreciate neither of you getting any sleep is a big problem too.
Fingers crossed she comes round again quickly and you can put all of this behind you for a good long while. I know taking that final decision is the most painful but generous thing we can ever do and I hope it doesn´t come to that for you.
love
Andrea
Red and Islay
I've been through this. Just enjoy every day you have with her. Don't worry about what's next, because it will be what it is. Your heart will tell you when she is suffering, and you will do what needs to be done. That maybe be tommorrow (I hope not), and it may be years away. Your heart knows. Take care Kelly
Leslie, I too like Amorette have not had any experience with such issues but I will be praying for you and Loki.
Max-angel was really the only one I had experience with senility issues. He was not aggressive, but as the last survivor of the original trio, there was no dog to have aggressions with. Even so, when he experienced other dogs, he was not aggressive. My gut is that the aggression is defensive, possibly covering up either a weakness (can no longer see or hear, or maybe the sense of smell is not as acute) or is covering some kind of internal discomfort.
Well, this news just sucks! I don't have any experience with this, since the 2 I lost to old age (15 and 16) didn't have that problem. Ilsa was only 9. I know you've probably already thought about this, but can she see and/or hear? Maybe that's what's making her scared/snappy? I can only imagine what you're all going through. Prayers going your way.
Molly will often snap at us if she is in her "trance", as we call it, and we suddenly startle her. When she is in the middle of pacing or in the middle of her rhytmic barking, you can be guaranteed she will snap or at least snarl when you interrupt her. However, we have not choice but to do so if we want any peace, especially when she is pacing or barking at 3 a.m.
Last night she was pacing back and forth on the floor at the end of the bed. Once she had us both awake, Randy just got up and picked her up and sat her on the bed. Oddly enough she didn't snap at him, but it was like he didn't break her trance, either. She just stood there in the middle of the bed (there's nothing like a 50 lb dog standing in the middle of the bed!). Finally she started moving and then proceeded to dig and attempt to remove all the covers from me, until I grabbed them. Once that didn't work, she finally laid down and immediately started snoring. It was a weird night.
Her episodes have gotten more frequent. This was the second or third night of pacing in the last two weeks. With Loki, it does make you wonder if she has injured her shoulder somehow and that is why she was more snappy.
Is she better today? Did she sleep better last night?
Eddie was never snappy until aboutsix moth b4 he went to the bridge. The he would air snap if he got startled out of his "trance"
I have had a dog Gizmo my little Papillion she had senility issues 1st time I have had to deal with it she made it to 14 1/2 years old. The vets at the time suggested the Omga oils in the capsules 3-6-12 I think this was about 2 years ago. She really seemed to go down hill when she lost her buddy Jake the Bouvier. It is really sad to see them like that getting lost in the house,not eating,being scared of you when you do regular grooming something you have done for years,really bad when they do not know you anymore. The vet told me you know when it is time to help them to the bridge when they no longer enjoy one thing they have loved to do.Not enjoying walks or trips to the back yard(Gizzy loved to go walking around the back yard when she stopped & just stood there I knew) she also quit eating I cooked her chicken breast & her favorite sausage patties.Good Luck with Molly.Papbouv
To keep her safe at night I started crating her again but she always loved her crate so it was not hard on her.To help her sleep and calm down Rescue Remedy might help.
Thank you everyone for your sensitive and insightful replies. Yes, I think my heart will know, when...
Yesterday we had workmen at the house. I took both girls out to the driveway to meet their new BFFs. :grin: After that all was well and quiet--relatively--until they needed to work inside. Our house is so small that there is no place to really isolate the dogs. Anyhoo, I worried that Loki might have another bad night, but she was just fine and slept through the night. DH and I decided I would take the next "shift" so to speak.
Oh, and she did not appear to have any pain these last couple of days. So the snapping thing? Her eyesight and hearing are somewhat diminished, but not greatly, but nevertheless will make sure I have made eye contact with her before I attempt to shift her.
Will keep you posted. I am handling this better than DH, but then this is the price he is paying for inconsistent training. When a dog barks at you and you repeat "I don't have anything" three or four times and then give the dawg a treat to shut them up, what do they learn?!??!??!?
I will follow my heart and re-evaluate when necessary.
Thanks, EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to be so late replying..... sometimes we just have to "hide and watch" and compensate. Keeping good thoughts for you as you move forward.....