ok--remember how I wrote that we were trying to train Loki with the squirt gun and she seemed kinda pouty? I am now not 100% sure this was a reaction to the new training method.
DH mentioned, and then I saw, too, that Loki was "Staring into space". I think I may have missed this behavior, because, you know, sometimes they are just listening to things we can't hear, or smelling things we can't smell. Then I did observe it. She wasn't completely "lights out", but still not really all "with it."
She has also been waking up a bit earlier in the morning, (usually I have to wake her up.) which we have attributed to little old lady dog bladder--so no problem there.
Yesterday morning before I went to work she seemed a little distant, and almost--I can't pin it down, she seemed affectionate, but didn't really know me. Hmmm. I know they had had a stressful day the day before with workmen at the house and I guessed she was over-tired or over-stressed.
Okay, now to last night. DH was not feeling well and went to bed early. I put the kidz in their crates at the usual time but they both started barking and fussing. (I couldn't really tell who was instigating it, but the dynamic was weird.) So, after offering walkies and water, and cookies to no avail, Zuzu, Loki and I piled on the sofa to sleep. Loki was active all night long, rooting through her toy box, chewing rawhides, rolling around on the sofa, licking. FOR HOURS. Usually when it's time to "go home" (crates) she falls asleep, starts snoring and stays asleep all night. (the snoring is kinda cute.)
I have read about "sundowner's syndrome" in elderly people, is this kinda the same thing? In all other respects, she seems physically healthy, but not completely Loki. We reckon she is 10 or 11 years old. (And of course she had major surgery last year, so we can add another year to her physical age there.)
Any input? Ideas? suggestions?
Thanks in advance, I can always count on the wonderful members of the Dachshund Circus to provide valuable insight. :heart:
UPDATE: Here is a checklist of primary symptoms. I intend to review this list every couple of months to see if there is a progression.
WEBSITE: http://www.cdsindogs.com/CDSInDogs.aspx?drug=CC&country=US&species=OO&sec=210
Les, having gone through this with Eddie a few months ago it really brings back a lot of memories. Eddie pulled a few all nighters and I would up sleeping on the couch many nights so he wouldn't jump off the bed to pace. My bed looked like a fortress with pillows lined up so he couldn't get near the edge, but he found a way to do it anyway. The worse night was when he paced 8 straight hours. There is some type of meds that can be given, but I don't remember the name and I hate meds for the furkids.
Sometimes Eddie would be fine then he would start pacing again. Sam on the other hand slept all the time and only paced on occasion. I don't know what else to tell you, but if you need to talk IM me.
Thank you, Marcia. I know you agonized over this. We all loved those two pups so much. If it's not too painful to think about (and I would totally understand) what was the time frame from the beginning of the symptioms (and how old were they) to the point where you determined the quality of life wasn't there? Also, do I recall that there was some hostile behavior toward the other dog or am I thinking about one of the members of the Bratpack from South Africa?
I guess after I get some bloodwork done to rule out physical aliments, I will just take a deep breath and go for the ride. Every day will be different. I will continue my usual and on-going training (the "Wait" command and the "stop barking" squirt gun) to keep the positive behavior reinforced and also keep the "learning" brain working.
I looked up the meds you were talking about, I am on the fence with it at this point. Seems to me, a dose of simple, reliable Valium when needed at night might be the simpliest way to go.
Anyone out there hear any anecdotal evidence leading to a correlation to spine surgery (or long term use of Matacam) and onset of cognitive deficits?
well, crap. This is going to be difficult with DH considering how hard it is for him to deal with her on a regular day.
and :heart:
Sam and Eddie both suffered from Doggie Alzheimers, but Sam's seemed to be very slow to manifest itself. He started with the stare into space deal then would snap back into his old self for a few months then back to the staring. Since he was always restless the constant running(with Sam it wasn't pacing) from kitchen to bedroom didn't mean much to me. My first real clue was when he started to sleep all day and all night, only got up to go outside or eat.
Eddie had a stroke around the holidays and after that it seemed to be all down hill. The stroke was very minor and he recovered quickly, but was never the same. It was early this year when Eddie couldn't get up the ramp to the couch, then couldn't find the ramp. He never snapped at anyone during the las few months of his life, but made sure he let the cats knew to let him alone. Besides trying to get off the bed Eddie found it hard to get out the back door to go outside. It was in the final days that things really got bad and I even had to move the chest of drawers against the bed so Eddie wouldn't jump off. It was a hard decision to make but it was the 3rd stroke that eventually caused Eddie's death.
Eddie was 14 when he went to the bridge. And I can relate to getting stuck in the corner, but Eddie would get stuck under the dining room table amongst the chairs or between the stove and the wall - his stroke made it impossible for him to back up.
There is a lot out there to read about CCD, but I found most of it either depressing or confusing.
Hug Loki for me and give my little gingersnap Zuzu a hug too.
Went went through this with Jeb, out first bulldog and are seeing it somewhat with Molly. With Jeb, the main thing we saw was some of the staring in space, but mainly the occasional times of not recognizing who we were and wanting to attack one of us. Once that started happening, we had no choice but to send him to Rainbow Bridge. It was the toughest decision ever since he seemed so healthy at times, but we couldn't trust him around anyone since there was no warning. With Molly, we definitely get the staring in space and the occasional moments of walking into a corner and not being sure where she is. She knows who everyone is, still, but no longer tolerates visitors to the house. This is starting to cause a strain around here, just because she will bark constantly in the other room when someone is over. We just don't have visitors, now. I can't risk her hurting someone. She is almost nine (her birthday is July 4th!) so this isn't unusual for a bulldog that is as old as she is.
How old is Loki now? We definitely saw this in Max. After Rudy's passing, when Max was left alone, he would "lock up" mentally and begin to howl. You had to literally get his attention by putting a hand on him. Then he'd snap out of it and act like nothing ever happened. Towards the end, he'd get himself "stuck" under a chair, for instance, not realizing if he simply turned around he'd be free to move about.
Have you had liver functions tested since being on Metacam? Also, the most comman drug these days for the nervousness is Alprazolam, which is the generic form of Xanex. Given in the correct doses recommended by your Veterinarian, it is very safe and effective. It may help you and your furbaby get much needed rest. There are also more holistic treatments available. I didn't check to see your location, but look on the internet for holistic veterinarians in your area. I have worked for one for 2 years and have been very impressed with the longevity and quality of life of his patients. Hope this helps.
Trish
Gizmo was my 14 1/2 year old Papillon she had Doggie Alzheimer's for about the last 2 years or longer of her life.
She was a ball nut would wear you out wanting you to throw the ball for her then one day all of a sudden she acted like she had never seen a ball before, she never played ball again after about 12 years of it. Then she started to act like she did not know us, then getting lost in the house, incontinent. The last 2 years she wore diapers in the house.As long as she seemed to enjoy going out into the backyard and sniffing around I was OK with doing all I could for her.Then she started not eating not even her favorite sausage & chicken breast, as long as I could get her to eat a little.She did not eat no matter what I tried for almost a week also she would just stand in the back yard no sniffing or walking around.Then she went to Rainbow Bridge.The vet said to give her fish oil capsules they would help her brain That was early on you might want to try that since it is not medications from a vet of course being holistic takes a little longer to see any results. Good Luck Papbouv
Awwwww Les - it is hard when our puppers age..... my Brandy is 13+ and I am seeing somewhat the same behaviour in her. Some nights she will wake up, be restless and just bark. Very interesting input in this thread......
Clifford has pretty much lost his hearing in the last 5 months. I attribute some of his getting lost in the house to that as he searches for me. His appetite is stil quite vigorous (or should I say voracious!!) but he has not had any interest in playing with sqeaky toys since last fall. Perhaps because he wasn't hearing the high pitched squeak? Early in winter I also thought it odd that he would stay in the living room when I practiced my flute. Usually he would go hide in another room. His hind legs often give out and he loses balance and falls over, but doesn't seem fazed by that. With all of this, I can't say that I notice any specific cogitive decline, but at 15 I'm sure it is occuring. sending hugs to our little prankster.
Les, so sorry about Loki. Aging is NOT a fun thing. I must say, what you describe is Madison all the way. From the spaced out looks (we say she's communicating with her dog star) to seeming....well.....dim. That's our girl! She's also got the Lil' Ol' Lady pee thing going on in the middile of the night and just seems so lost at times. Sounds like Loki and the Madderoo have a lot in common.
Peace to our 'mater and strawberry eatin' hound dawg.
Emma was like that in the end, it was when she was about 15 for the last few years she was sort of zoned out sometimes. Question has she been on Metacalm, I ask as Amy was on it for a while slpped disc then pulled shoulder, but I noticed she was sluggish, and sure enough one of the side effects is apathy, she is now wizzing around at amy speed.
give both a big hug from us
Oh, Leslie, this is so hard...
Reading these symptoms is also hard for me. We took Patches to the vet last week and it appears he may also be starting doggy alzheimers. He has always been a couch pooch; but, lately, if he thinks he is alone, he starts to cry like he can't find us. He licks constantly when he is close to person. He is sitting in my lap licking my knee as I type this. His appetite is still good; but, he has lost 2 lbs. in the 4 months and looks like the mini he truly is (instead of a piglet). The vet has run all the tests and has not found a physical reason for the weight loss.
Patches was a rescue and supposed to be 8 years old when we adopted him. I always felt he acted older; but, thought it just was his temperment. Now that he's 12+, I'm beginning to wonder if he wasn't a little bit older. He is deaf; but, he still seems to love his life and is happy. We're just going to take it one day at a time...
Good luck with Loki. I share your pain.
Dianne
Thanks, everyone for yor insight and wisdom. I plan to take this as it comes.
So far the plan is...
add Fish oil supplement (essentially the coat supplement I stopped)
continue with on-going training AND add hand signals so that if there is hearing loss, comunication can be "maintained" (c'mon it's LOKI)
keep a diary to see if there are triggers ie stress or upset in routine.
step up to daily grooming to promote calmness and emotional bond.
Sharing your stories is very valuable to me. Together with information from my vet care book and the internet I have a pretty clear idea of the things that MIGHT happen.
:heart: again, Les & Loki