For the most part, our girls get along great! They snuggle together and Bonnie is TRYING to help Maddie to learn to play. Mark says I'm paranoid because Bonnie came from a situation where she fought with another dog (and why she ended up in rescue). Now they don't seem inclined to rumble EXCEPT for 2 situations.....
When Bonnie is with me. She can be laying against me on the couch (she will not climb into my lap-yet) and when Maddie comes by, she low growls. I have been quick to discipline with a poke of her neck (like mama dog would do) and a corresponding "Hey!" or "No!" When this happens, I just know my bad energy can be felt because I become afraid that (while it hasn't happened) Bonnie will lash out at Maddie with a snap or bite. Mark thinks I need to just let them be dogs. I don't want a fight. So once Maddie gets settled in (in the best place on my lap), Bonnie is fine with that and either they give each other licks or they both snooze.
The next situation is in the Big Bed. Bonnie will low growl when Maddie wants under the covers and Bonnie is there first. Again, discipline is administered but I'm still afraid that something may happen. I even make the girls sleep on different levels of covers, giving Bonnie only the quilt because she sleeps so hot. Still, the whole growling thing freaks me out. Bonnie is a sensational dog accept for this behavior.
I'm thinking of crating at night. And I'm thinking of only crating Bonnie. I have one crate and I can put it in the bedroom on my side of the bed. Bonnie seems to like the crate but (thinking in human terms of fairness) do you think I'm being unfair to crate one and not the other? Will Bonnie feel resentment if Maddie can sleep in the big bed and she can't? Maddie has never slept in a crate since we've had her (9 years).
Should I crate train BOTH of them? Can Maddie learn this at 11yrs? Again, am I being paranoid? Your input. I just want everyone to get along.
I have a tendency to be the same way with Schatzi and Molly. In our case, Schatzi instigates it because she is the alpha, but when Molly reacts it is more fierce because she is the bigger dog. It keeps me on edge with Molly all the time and Randy, too, says she can sense it. I find that if I just let them be, it works out better. Easier said than done. In our case, it's also the same reason I have a hard time disciplining Molly. She seems to know that I have that fear of her so it isn't too effective.
I say keep watching them for now. I would think the crate might make it worse. Some will probably say I'm thinking like a human and not a dog, but now that she's had the big bed, I think it might be hard to go back to the crate.
Hopefully our resident Dog Whisperer will help you out...
Maddie and Bonnie have different needs. If Bonnie is used to a crate at night, I would leave her in it. She may feel safer in the crate, and it's her own space that she doesn't have to share with Maddie, or compete with Maddie for the space. Maddie of course sleeps where she is accustomed to sleeping. I wouldn't put Maddie in a crate at this point in her life, it will just upset her, and she may resent Bonnie as the big change happened at the same time Bonnie arrived.
You will sleep better too without having to be alert for a quarrel that could break out at any time during the night.
I wouldn't worry about "equality" for the dogs. They have different needs, and they are getting them met in different ways.
When I raised my children, if one child needed shoes, I didn't buy shoes for all of them. I couldn't afford it. They learned to understand that their needs would be met, and some of their wants. I have 4 very successful "unjealous" adult children now.
Just my thoughts on the issue. Cheers
Wonderful! I love to hear what you think. Please keep the responses coming. Here's how the night unfolded. Had both of them in the big bed with Maddie all the way under the covers and Bonnie under the quilt. The usual, when Maddie got restless and wanted to come up for air, she nudged past Bonnie. No growl. But then Maddie wanted to know where Bonnie was so she poked her nose under the quilt. She got the famous Bonnie growl. Mommy said "No!" ....and then decided to try something. I picked Bonnie up and showed her the open crate. THen I helped her a bit to get into it. It has a nice pillow and a nice quilt. Once in, I shut the door. Told her she was a good girl and then went back to bed and waited. Maddie was content to lick my feet (a nightly ritual) and.....NOT A SOUND from Bonnie. Pretty soon I heard her sleepy sigh and that was it. She slept right through the night, not one whimper. Even when Maddie got up at 5:30 this morning to go potty, all I did was open the crate, offer the outside for potties for Bonnie-who declined and then tossed a treat in the crate, helped her back in and she went right back to sleep. I really think she's FINE there. She's right by my side of the bed and I think she's really comfortable there. This morning when we all got up, she didn't scratch at the door or anything. She just popped out when I opened the door. I let Maddie off the bed, they sniffed each other and we started our day! I hope I'm not premature in saying....THIS WAS A SUCCESS!
I'll continue to work with the growls when she's with me. I feel so much better and, indeed, like Parker's hooman said, "they have different needs". Theresa, what specifically do you do with Schatzie and Molly? I see I'm not the only one. When we had Dolly, we never had this issue, so I'm learning too.
I would crate Bonnie at night, since that is what she is used to. And don't crate Maddie. The low-growly thing.........Misty would growl at Willy and Alex all the time. If they got too close to her bone, or too close when she was on Dan's lap, or too close to where she was sleeping next to Dan. I thought it was funny, she was just claiming her space AND DAN! They had such a bond, it was beautiful. A couple times I took Misty to work with me when we had an early morning vet appointment, and she would do the low growl if someone walked by my cubicle, it was hilarious. Give Bonnie and Maddie time to sort things out. Don't force the issue, it will be fine. Like Mark said, let them be dogs. The dogs can sense your stress so have a glass of wine and relax. I have heard of a lot of cases where a new dog and the established one did not get along at first, but they worked it out. And doxies especially love to have one of their own around and soon Bonnie and Maddie will be cuddling up together.
Have you thought of sleeping them both in a bed next to your side of the bed. It estabishes that you are the alpha and the bed is a treat, plus they have a place that is theirs. We have done that with all of ours, plus we don't like the idea of them at some point jumping down. We also don't like crating, but that is personal. So when we go to work we leave it facing a front window.
Roberta
I'm still working on how to handle Schatzi and Molly. I have to work on Schatzi and her Alpha issues for one thing. She has huge Alpha issues! You would think she was older than 9 months when we got Molly. When we lived in the condo, we only had to worry when someone came to the door or they dropped the mail through the slot. They would both run barking and Schatzi was determined to be the leader and most ferocious. Because of this, they would end up sounding vicious with each other. We finally had them doing much better until we moved. Now when they are outside and our neighbors are outdoors we go through the same thing. If there wasn't a size difference I wouldn't worry about it too much. Randy always reminds me that Schatzi starts it (which is true), but that really isn't the point. I've just got to find a way to stop it. Yesterday Randy got them with water as soon as they started. That worked like a charm. We may try "setting them up" a few times and having people purposely walk up to the fence so they will react and we can stop them. We can't camp out all day watching outside for something to happen, so this may be our best solution. This is the only time Molly reacts to Schatzi's alpha personality. The other times she lets her have her way.
Are you being paranoid? Yes.
Do you need to crate? No.
Listen, if you respond to a behavior you reinforce it. If you respond to a "Sit!" then you reinforce the sit in the dog's mind.
If you respond to a dog's out-of-control barking at a beet truck, you reinforce the barking. If you respond to a dog's out-of-control barking at a beer truck, you get a very valuable dog!
If you respond to a low growl, you reinforce it. Cesar would give a correction (A leash tug or fingers on the head and neck) and a "HEY!" but anything more is too much. Let your dogs know you are calm and assertive, and they will be calm and submissive.
Now Roscoe Angel :angel4: used to go ballistic at Merlin and Beau walking around the bed. They ignored him, which further infuriated him! Every once in a while I would step in with a step in his direction - which challenges his territory - and again say "HEY!" He would feign ignorance ("Is there a problem, Officer?") and waddle off to look for bedbugs or something.
It could happen that they may fight, but usually would be a brief skirmish. Everyone is entitled to a grumpy day, or time of day. Maybe Bonnie is ready for bed and in no mood to put up with being walked on or sniffed or whatever. Maybe she just needs her sleep. You can try her in a crate and see if she takes to it. She may like the space to herself.
Really, truly, and I say this with a lot of love: you're overthinking the problem. Relax. They're dogs. They'll sort it out.
Love,
Auntie Karen :heart: :heart:
If you respond to a low growl, you reinforce it. Cesar would give a correction (A leash tug or fingers on the head and neck) and a "HEY!" but anything more is too much. Let your dogs know you are calm and assertive, and they will be calm and submissive.
Thank you Doctor. Yep, that's what we're doing. I'm still going for the crate idea (NOT FOR ME) for Lady Bonnie. She LIKES it so it might just work for her.
We received her pkg from Foxy Doxy Dachshund Rescue today. What a sad story, really. Bonnie was a breeder dog prior to her previous home. The people who had her were kind enough to document their thoughts about her in the last few months. If anyone is interested in that story, please feel free to email me and I will share it with you. The short of it is, we believe Bonnie has been misjudged and is really a good girl, just a little misunderstood. Like all dogs coming into a new home situation, there is going to be some issues. We are working on the jealousy thing as best as we know how with, what I think, are good results. I'll keep everyone updated as to the progress of sisterly love reigning here at the Hooyman household.
I don't know of anything to add but have been following your thread with great interest! you have some really good suggestions and I'd love to keep getting updates so we know how the story unfolds! Bonnie sounds like a wonderful girl and I'm sure she is going to settle right in in no tome! Maddie is such a good girl to be accepting her like she has too. I am just so happy for youa nd Mark to have taken in another little girl in need like this!
Quote from: Madderoos Mom on November 02, 2008, 08:10:01 PMThe short of it is, we believe Bonnie has been misjudged and is really a good girl, just a little misunderstood.
Allow me to paraphrase
West Side Story: Ahem . . .
Dear Officer Krupke, we're very upset.
This doxie never got the kind of love one should get.
She ain't no delinquent, she's misunderstood,
Deep down inside her she is good!
She is good, She is good,
She is just flat good,
Why, deep down inside her, She is GOOD!
Merlin the Jet
"When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way, from your first cigarette to your last dying day . . . :thumb:
Sandi, I remember when Jill (the judge in WA) rescued a dog, and it took months before the dog would sit on her lap, or something like that. Its only been a short time, you have got to give Bonnie time to de-compress and relax. I know with your love and caring, she will fit right in. Please, please try not to freak out. Bonnie really needs you guys. I know you have it in you to do this.
I LOVE the West Side Story paraphrase! SO TRUE!
Patty, NO worries. This one is OURS. She is truly a love bug and blossoms more every day. She is NOT the vicious beast she was made out to be. :dontknow: Another great night in the crate and two happy dawgs this morning. :hello2:
I don't have anything to add as we are having similar issues at our house. Porky has decided he wants to be top dog and Jade needs to obey him. We have had some growling and chasing going on, so we are working on getting them to get along better. This advice is helping us too!
We have this situation with Billy and Siggy. Poor Siggy can't even come to bed if Bill's awake and Siggy was here first. I should state that I can't always get in bed either and I know I should put him out of bed but I just can't. Anyway how we handle it is I take Bill a cookie and I carry Siggy and he let's us in. Bill sleeps on Franks side and Siggy sleeps on my side. The has worked for several years now with no night time trouble except for when Siggy does get up at night sometimes to get a drink and he tries to sneak back in bed. Then Bill will get real growly and run at him but Siggy just ignores him and runs around to my side of the bed. If Bonnie likes her crate I would let her sleep there.