I and I'm sure others await.........................
Roberta
Feet and paws tapping here....... we want a report on our girls !
Dee is taking Hallie to the neurologist this morning. The drive is very long, so it is a whole day process. Send all your good thoughts and prayers and rayz to Washington today.
We are thinking of them too!! :pray:
Allrighty then.... Washington it is..... :pray: :angel4:
Mega mega prayers and well wishes on their way to Washington :pray: :pray: :pray:
Rays and many prayers for Hallie and her mom.
Sorry to be so late posting, Hallie woke me up with diarrhea at 3:30 this morning so we just went ahead on up to the clinic and were there 4 hours early. By the time we got home this afternoon I barely could get into the house and collapse into bed with Hallie.
The Neurologist is now tending to agree with the first one that Hallie does have that dilated spinal cord thing. :( We did not do an MRI since she is feeling good right now again but we are going to treat it as if that is what it is since it most likely is. There is a drug to try that might help. It will keep happening but hopefully the drug will make them farther apart and maybe milder. It is really rare so not a lot is known about it. He said a disc would have been better of course because he could do something about that. It wasn't what I wanted to hear but we'll do the best we can and at least she is feeling good again now. He said no need to crate or confine. Thanks for all of the rays and well wishes.
Here's hoping the new med will help keep them few and far between!!!! Glad your back home safe and the two of you can rest. Please give Hallie plenty of hugs and kisses from Nebraska!! We all are pulling for the both of you!!!
I do hope that the new medication will help Hallie. I know how hard it is for the both of you. I am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. Sending mega rays for a full recovery for Hallie.
Darcel
Hope you both sleep well to-night, not what you wanted hear, but give what he suggests a go. Try and not worry as the saying goes "it may not happen"
Sweet dreams you pair.
Da gang
OOooo DeeDee,, the trials we go thru... :rolleyes:
Of course we'll always be wishing good thoughts for you and Hallie. :heart: :pray:
Wow, Miss Hallie! You're so special, you even have a rare thingy going on when you aren't feeling well! Rays on the way... :comfort: :pray: :heart:
Oh Dee Dee....sure hope and pray the new medication will work wonders for Hallie. I am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.
Glad to hear that Hallie is feeling better! We were very worried, and still remain so. As we know through experience with Stormy, sometimes a pharmaceutical is a miracle! We are sending extra rays, and Sophie is sending her best and fanciest licks to you both! Hopefully, this med will produce for Hallie a miracle, like Stormy's did for him. And DeeDee...don't forget to take care of YOU, too!
Deb, Rich, Stormy & Sophie
Thanks you guys, she did a strange thing last night that was a first so am not sure how to interpret it, she was doing very well then she started to act funny, she didn't want to walk and was slow but she could trot ok (which isn't the usual story when she is sore) and she seemed frantic, kept trying to crawl up on me with her tail tucked, would go from bed to bed to bed and back again and under covers which she never does but could never settle. I called the ER and they said to give her a tramadol and a gabapentin (she already had a pred that morning) which I did. She finally settled but it took a long time, so now I'm really worried about what these new symptoms mean. This morning she was trotting along next to me as I was walking with some food and she was looking up at me and ran her head into the door jam. So another huge worry for the day/week/month/milennium.... :( I would have taken her to Dr. Sanders last night if he were in, she had her episode last Friday evening and now this Friday evening both when he won't be back in the office for days!
Every morning I wake up thinking what a nightmare then realizing it is reality. She looks so "puny" to me she has changed so fast and is even more white in her face...every movement looks odd to me now and I'm not sure if it's normal or not. I have never loved anything or anyone like I do this little girl this is just unbearable.
Mel (Mimi's Mom) called me last night which was really nice of her. She is having problems posting and wanted to let everyone know that she is still kicking but she is really in a bad way still without answers so can still use a lot of rays and prayers. She was just put on the same med Hallie just started (gabapentin) although it hasn't helped her yet. And she's taking the same dosage as Hallie which doesn't seem right...I just googled to make sure I wasn't overdosing Hallie and I'm not but makes you wonder if Mel needs a much higher dose...
DD - my heart breaks for you. The not knowing what is going on is the absolute worst. I just wonder if it is the meds that are affecting her. I am sure it is scary for her. Please-please take care of yourself. You are doing everything in the world possible for your girl. I know how hard it is - and I know that Hallie is your heart.
Just know we are all thinking of both of you and could take the hurt away if we only could.
Lots of love from Texas,
Barb, Rudy, Brandy
Quote from: Dee Dee and Hallie on May 31, 2008, 12:00:49 PM
she was doing very well then she started to act funny, she didn't want to walk and was slow but she could trot ok (which isn't the usual story when she is sore) and she seemed frantic, kept trying to crawl up on me with her tail tucked, would go from bed to bed to bed and back again and under covers which she never does but could never settle.
It means she is looking for a place to be where it doesn't hurt. Their little brains don't register that the pain comes from inside them. Loki did the same thing at her first episode and it was (*&^%$ for her to find a place in the yard to poop that didn't register "It hurt when I pooped here last time." Poor Hallie.
so now I'm really worried about what these new symptoms mean. Every morning I wake up thinking what a nightmare then realizing it is reality. She looks so "puny" to me she has changed so fast and is even more white in her face...every movement looks odd to me now and I'm not sure if it's normal or not. I have never loved anything or anyone like I do this little girl this is just unbearable.
It is so terrible and we are praying for you to keep finding strength -- you gotta keep reaching down inside yourself for a while longer. We love you both and continue to send our rays and prayers.
Mel (Mimi's Mom) called me last night which was really nice of her. She is having problems posting and wanted to let everyone know that she is still kicking but she is really in a bad way still without answers so can still use a lot of rays and prayers.
They are on the way!!!!!!!
I do have some good news for at least one of our puppers--Loki is now switched on to "full tilt bonkers". No pain meds today, just anti-inflams. Will withhold the anti-inflams tommorrow and see how this goes. Hang in there, kid.
Dee Dee it could be a side effect of the drug, it effects people animals in diffrent ways, most aare seen in the first few days, so it may pass. so hang in there.
Roberta
That is great news on Loki Les. I am so glad she is doing so much better.
Yes I figured Hallie was trying to avoid some pain by her behavior, but it was way different than how she behaved on any of her other pain episodes. So something different was happening to her which is what worries me. It unfortunately wasn't the meds because she hadn't taken the new meds yet when this happened, she had just had a pred that morning and it was her first tapering dose of pred so she had not had a dose the day before. When she started to act this way I called the ER and they said to give her tramadol and gabapentin. So I am still stumped at what was going on to make her so frantic.
She seems to be pretty comfortable today she was out in her xpen while I was mowing the lawn now she is laid across my arms sacked out. I wrote to Dr. Clare Rusbridge in England who is the main researcher for syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (which is the breed it runs rampant in...very tragic). I told her Hallie's symptoms and that two neuro's have now told me it is not the same kind of syringomyelia that the CKCS get. She wrote a quick note back (as did her Mother/assistant) and both said they don't think Hallie has that kind of syringomyelia either...she said she would write more later but just wanted to shoot a quick email to let me know she got mine and was going to answer. I have so many questions needing answered on this thing. I got the neuro notes today and he did say she should never do any jumping or running...jumping is no problem as we never have but I was very sad to hear about the running she is so joyful and we loved our daily walks she would run pretty much the whole way. :(
Leslie, I am so glad to hear the good news about Loki...that is wonderful. Many prayers and comforting hugs to Mel. I am praying so hard that her new medication will work for her.
Dee Dee....my heart breaks for you and Hallie. I am saddened that she is not allowed to run anymore....she is just so beautiful when she runs and she enjoys it so much. I hope that Dr. Clare Rusbridge can give you some answers about Hallie's condition. I am continuing to say many prayers for you and dear sweet Hallie. I pray that you both will feel better very soon. I don't know what it is lately but it seems that a lot of us here on WW are having some very bad things happen. I think everyone here needs prayers so that our WW family either stays healthy or begins to get healthy very soon.
Leslie, glad to hear that Loki is feeling good again!
DeeDee and Hallie -- Rays and prayers are coming your way in full force. Hugs to you both! Dee, Dave, Sarge & Duggie
I'm really sorry I'm so late in replying to this post!! I was gone all week taking care of a four year old. I'm so sorry Hallie is having so much pain!! :comfort: I will be praying for both of you. :pray: I would be a wreck if Porky was in that situation.
That is really weird that Hallie and Mel have the same dose of medicine. :dontknow: Seems strange to me. I just hope it works for both of them!! :xfinger: I too will miss the pictures of Hallie's blissful running.
I am so happy for Les and Loki!! :apls: What a relief that she is doing better.
Sending ultra healing rays from Nebraska to Hallie.
Is there any way you could say to hell with the cost and get a phone like up with this Lady with your neutro there, or even just call her and speak to her and record it, as sometimes speaking is easier than trying to get it on paper.
Take it easy.....................
Roberta
Thanks yes I think we need a huge prayer/ray rally on this board lately. How is Zoe doing Cheryl? I've been praying for you 2 also if we lived closer we could share some lorazapam!
That's a good thought Roberta. Cost is certainly not a factor (I would sell my house if I had to!). There is always the risk of bruising egos though, our neuro doesn't feel necessarily stumped (i.e. not looking for answers elsewhere) so I am not sure how he'd take a suggestion to talk to Dr. Rusbridge...and honestly I don't know if Dr. Rusbridge would know more in this case or not. Since the syringomyelia is not the same type she is researching. The snippets of info I am getting from different sources don't all gel, I was hoping I'd see a common pattern and pieces to a puzzle to figure out the answer but I guess there are too many variables for that. Some of the things our neuro says makes sense that it would be the dilation rather than a disc. But some don't. He feels that a disc would not come and go like this and that we'd be seeing some neuro deficits if a disc were causing that much pain which we never have.
I heard from Dr. Rusbridge this morning. What a wonderful lady....her message has me wondering for sure. I wish we had gotten an MRI but everytime we had it available Hallie was feeling better so we chose the conservative route and to rest her and not put her through it. Every time she's had a bout of this pain here, it has been on a Friday night when we couldn't see the neuro for at least 3 days and by then she'd be more comfortable etc. But I am sure an MRI is in her future. I am posting Dr. Rusbridge's comments in the hopes someone somewhere will read this and have been through a similar situation and hopefully have some further insight.
I think I need to know more about the investigative results for Hallie. Am I correct in thinking that she has recently had another myelogram and that this has shown a dilated spinal cord but that the cause for the dilatation is unknown? or have there been other tests such as a MRI scan which reveal the nature of the dilatation? I note that the neurologist stated that there was syringomyelia on the basis of the myelogram however myelogram does not normally show a syringomyelia unless the contrast media happened by chance to to injected into the spinal cord central canal or the syrinx. If it truly did show a syringomyelia then you would need to quality / qualify this better with a MRI scan - e.g. why is there a syringomyelia
the spinal cord can be dilated for 2 reasons
1) it is swollen e.g. impact from a disc or an inflammatory process.
2) there a "space occupying lesion" inside e.g. cyst, tumour, syringomyelia.
In a Dachshund 1 is a more likely explanation. If impact from a disc then the swelling is usually centred / worse over the disc space. If inflammatory then it is likely that the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF( are abnormal. (CSF is a fluid collected at the time of the myelogram and if this has not been done then it would be the next logical step although the results can be affected by the myelogram)
To rule out 2 and to ascertain if there is truly a syrinnx then I would recommend a MRI. Did your neurologist offer this - most have access to one these days? Where do you live? It needs to be a decent quality MRI for a small dog like a Dachshund
Tramadol is a good short term medication for spinal pain. Gabapentin is used for a more long term solution. I think you need to establish better what you are treating.
If Hallie is 7 and has syringomyelia then there is a good chance it could be managed successfully medically however again you need to establish what is the cause.
Oh Dee Dee....I wish I knew more about what they are saying could be wrong with Hallie. I think the doctor is saying that Hallie needs an MRI so you can determine why the spinal cord is dialated, correct? Too bad the good doctor could not make a trip to you to examine Hallie herself. That would be awesome. I think it is wonderful that she is talking to you and giving you advice. What are the differences in the two types of syringomyelia? I am continuing to pray for you both....and Dee Dee I do wish we lived closer because I think we both need a stiff drink or something...haha...I still have some valium left over from the first night we took Zoe to the Care Center. Hahaha....I would like to post more on your information from Dr. Rusbridge and I will do that tomorrow when I am at work. It is 9:10pm here and I am totally exhausted from today's events. It is mental stress, I know you understand. Zoe is at home now and FINALLY sleeping in her crate. She is taking Dexamethasone 1/2 tab three times a day for five days right now and then we go through a step down process with it along with Methocarbamol 500 mgs 1/4 tab every 8 hours and Pepcid as a tummy protector. I have to get up at 2am to give her the next round of pills. Take care of yourself and continued prayers to you and Hallie so you both will feel much better....Until tomorrow, God Bless you both, Cheryl
Total and heartfelt rays and prayers coming to both my of good friends, DD and Hallie Berry Butt.
Dee Dee, I really feel encouraged by the things Dr. Rusbridge is saying. It seems that she things the dilation is from the disc doing something, or something other than the serious form of syringomella. From the beginning, most of Hallie's symptoms didn't fit the typical syringomella profile. Could the disc be just starting to cause a problem, and not severe yet. I wonder if it is just putting enough pressure occasionally to cause the swelling but not enough to cause the neuro signs. I think that if she shows the symptoms again, even if she is better by the time she sees the neuro, I would go ahead and get the MRI. It is going to be the only way you will have any kind of an answer, or close to an answer.
I think you can show your neuro the reply you got from Dr Rusbridge without him being bothered by it. He has to know you are going to research as much as possible about this. She says a lot of what he has about it not being the same as the King Charles Spaniels.
I hope Hallie keeps feeling better. I also hope you get some good results from your visits this month. Take care of yourself.
Dee Dee, could it be similar to Zoe's situation where the disc is bulging and hitting the nerves that run alongside the spinal cord and not compressing the spinal cord? Zoe is passing all the neurological exams normally ( :xfinger:) so far but was in extreme pain and that is what they think is causing it????
I had hopes for the disc solution too but then I keep wondering if it made sense why don't any of the neuros we've talked to think that is the case? There must be something atypical still for them to not go to the disc conclusion first. Cheryl, I believe the myelogram would have shown if there was a herniation pressing on the nerves at the time so she had pain withouth any obvious herniations etc which worries me.
Here is the latest from Dr. Rusbridge. Now I am more worried than ever. I googled inflammatory spinal disease and that sounds like the worst case scenario. Hallie feels good today it seems again which is great. But I worry with every movement. I just wish we could get relief with a definitive answer that has a very promising outcome! I wouldn't want to do a spinal tap at this point I think I'd go with the MRI first less invasive.
I think we will just be guessing (especially me) at the cause of Hallie's pain without 1) results from the spinal tap (sometimes called CSF analysis) and / or a MRI scan. Pain from syringomyelia is much more likely if there is a wide syrinx (usually 4mm or more) - not just a dilated central canal. I would also err on the side of caution - if myelogram contrast finds its way into the central canal because of a lumbar injection then the central canal can be dilated due to the contrast being pushed in not because it was a syrinx (if that makes sense). Also some small dogs just have a dilated central canal with no ill effects.
To me if disc disease is ruled out this sounds more like an inflammatory process - which I have certainly seen before in a dachshund (which coincidently was a very challenging case presenting like a disc but finding only slight swelling in the L1 region - eventually diagnosed with a combination of myelogram, MRI, CSF and biopsy). Inflammatory spinal diseases respond to steroids and I wonder if the recurrence coincided with the steroids being withdrawn / wearing off? Inflammatory diseases are less likely to be able to respond to gabapetnin alone. If you get a response to gabapentin alone then this is more likely to be a structural problem like a disc or syringomyelia
However really I am making an educated guess from the clues you are giving me. I really think that if the back pain persists you need to do a more further investigation.
I'm heading back to work, but look back at January 07 and beyond at Kari's posts, the ones after penny's surgery. Isn't that what she had/has. It was controlled and seems to be controlled today. I think hers flared up in February, March. If Kari sees this, she'll be able to tell you for sure.
Penny's spinal cord was inflamed because her immune system was attacking it (inflammatory focal myelitis). We treated this with steroids, chemotherapy drugs and pain killers. It is always something that could come back (and did flare up late last year). She will never be cured but only in remission. I'll post a link with more information just in case. Within this post WW Post about Penny (http://www.wienerwritings.com/forum/index.php?topic=2800.0") there is information at her condition. Please let me know if i can help you in any way.
I was thinking of Penny too Teresa, thanks for the date...and thanks Kari for posting the link as I wasn't able to find it. I do wonder if it is the same thing. I know Penny had one weak back leg with her pain was that all? (not that that's not more than enough!) Hallie has had no neuro defecits so I don't know how much of a clue that is. I can't find much on this when I google focal inflammatory myelitis in dogs...has Penny been normal except for on setback and when was that? I get mored worried about this as time goes on. Hallie has not regressed when weaned off the steroids each time. The only problem we had there was in Feb when she had a dexa shot and then nothing the next day, and the following morning she had pain again (that is when we went to the neuro in Oregon). Yet several things do sound similar to Penny's case. Do you have to curtail her activities (beyond what we normally do for doxies) and how old was she when this first showed up with her?
Quote from: Dee Dee and Hallie on June 02, 2008, 12:37:09 PM
I was thinking of Penny too Teresa, thanks for the date...and thanks Kari for posting the link as I wasn't able to find it. I do wonder if it is the same thing. I know Penny had one weak back leg with her pain was that all? (not that that's not more than enough!) Hallie has had no neuro defecits so I don't know how much of a clue that is. I can't find much on this when I google focal inflammatory myelitis in dogs...has Penny been normal except for on setback and when was that? I get mored worried about this as time goes on. Hallie has not regressed when weaned off the steroids each time. The only problem we had there was in Feb when she had a dexa shot and then nothing the next day, and the following morning she had pain again (that is when we went to the neuro in Oregon). Yet several things do sound similar to Penny's case. Do you have to curtail her activities (beyond what we normally do for doxies) and how old was she when this first showed up with her?
Penny had just turned 4 when the it originally happened. Unfortunately we never were able to find out the cause of it...still a mystery. She had the neurological signs because it was so swollen it was causing the neuro deficit in her rear leg. The is little to no information on the internet about this in canines which was SO frustrating...it is pretty rare. She had a setback in November of 2007 about 11 months after original diagnosis. She was on all the medication about a total of 10 months...tapering here and there and finally taking her off of it all (so scary). Penny has never been a jumper, she uses her ramps and we carry her upstairs. For a long time I was afraid to let her do anything, but now she is back to her normal routine. We go on long walks and she plays with her toys. We don't let her around other dogs for the most part because we don't want her to get stepped on or tussled. Also she can't have any vaccines so we don't want her catching anything. She does play with my parent's beagle but Molly is pretty gentle and submissive. I am also so scared when we go on vacation that something will happen when we aren't there. My parents are the only people ever that we allow to watch her because the lived through the surgery and problems with us and understand the magnitude of the situation. Other than the one setback she has been completely normal although we watch her like a hawk and at the sign of anything abnormal we take her in to see the neuro. Hope this helps!
That is good news Kari. Is she on any meds at all right now? I am afraid this sounds so similar to Hallie and it does scare me to death...but all of it has scared me to death. I am weaning her off her drugs now too which as you say is a stressful time. Just hate this stuff. :( Thanks for your input though and you are right there really is so little info out there on this.
Quote from: Dee Dee and Hallie on June 02, 2008, 02:25:59 PM
That is good news Kari. Is she on any meds at all right now? I am afraid this sounds so similar to Hallie and it does scare me to death...but all of it has scared me to death. I am weaning her off her drugs now too which as you say is a stressful time. Just hate this stuff. :( Thanks for your input though and you are right there really is so little info out there on this.
She isn't on any meds for the inflammation/back problem anymore. She is on one med because she has vasculites (sp?) in her ears (dermatological problem) and we have to manage it. She had the vasculites before her back problems and it went away (apparently it is common in doxies), but it seems that it has flared up and stayed as a result of the other medications she was on for her back inflammation! :verdict:
I can relate to being scared...every day we weened her off the meds I just waited to hear that scream of pain from her. I have to say that I will never forget her "screaming" in pain as Drew held her in the ER...I can still hear it. We do watch her closely since she is only in "remission". I hope that Hallie can get a clear diagnosis - it seems so hard to get since these problems are so rare in the puppers.
:thinik: Hmmm . . .
Just a thought:
Is this a dachshund thing? Or is it a small breed problem? Has anyone checked with Doxie breeders?
Hope all is well.
Love and rays from Karen and The "Faux" Herd
"Speakin' of phony dachshunds, Auntie Karen, you ain't talkin' 'bout me an' Guinness, are ya?" :confused:
"No, Roscoe dear, I'm not talking about you two." :comfort:
Oh Dee Dee, so much to think about and try to figure out. I am praying for you and Hallie everyday and hope that something comes of all this for you. Know that your not only in my prayers, but everyone here on WW. Keep on keeping us posted on how Miss Hallie is doing. :pray: :pray: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: coming your way.
Darcel
I do hope Hallie can get a MRI usually shows everything going on I have Spinal Stenosis where there is a narrowing on my spinal cord due to a disk herniation + I have 2 bulging disks all showed up on the MRI I have had 2 MRI's. Since they think Hallie's is swelling would think a anti inflammatory maybe something that could be taken more long term than Pred.Do not think they will really know what is going on until the MRI is done at least they would have a different view on it other than the mylogram.Pred is such a bad drug I hate any one or animal to have to take it my sister was on it for a year now has Diabetes from it. Veterinaries sure like to use it from skin problems to back problem s I'm sure it has its place in human & animals medicine.
Sending Huge Rays & Hugs to you both.
Papbouv