It has been about 3 weeks of crate rest and steroids and Valium and muscle relaxers. No improvement. The problem is IVDD in the neck and the only way for Champ to relax is for him to be completely sedated. We had him at the vets and he was in ICU over the weekend so that they could sedate him and he did not seem to improve. He is in sever pain. We consulted with a specialist and the prognosis for him is not good.
We appear to have only two choices. The first it to continue treatments with all of the drugs and hope for the best but he may always have the pain. The second is surgery that will not necessarily relieve the pain and it may cause more problems with adjacent disks which appear to be degenerating but not causing pain at this point. The surgery will not necessarily be a solution but it would be a temporary relief. He is in so much pain that he shakes all of the time. He cannot get comfortable with anything he does, laying down sitting up, anything. Has anyone else had dogs with IVDD in the neck? I tried dodgers but most all of the information is about IVDD in the back. The neck seems to be a no win situation. Neither option will give him a good quality of life back. To add insult to injury, Smokey, our little chocolate and tan doxie, has had more seizures and it looks like we will need to have him on meds. The seizures are increasing in frequency but not in length. The vet said to be on the lookout for a GrandMal(sp?) seizure and if we see one we will need to get him on meds. Does anyone have any better information on treatment for IVDD in the neck???
Crating is the best!! Keep at it. When you are home do you move his crate so he can be in whatever room you are in? Penny was crated for a total of 7 weeks earlier this year during her back problems. It is the best thing you can do for them even though they don't agree with you. As for tapering the pain killer - try what you vet is recommending and see how he does. If he seems to be in a lot of pain I would call them and up the dose. They told us with Penny just to monitor her and if she seems to be in pain to give her more or if she is doing good to reduce it.
Of course their is always Rescue Remedy can't hurt anything suppose to calm them down then their is the infuser of calming herbs you can plug in by the crate suppose to calm them ??? have not tried the last one. Just type in Calming Infuser for dogs in your search mode and see what you get.
Papbouv
Please join Dodgerslist, it has a lot of people that are very knowledgeable about IVDD. Maybe you can give him a kong while he is in his crate-it will keep him busy. I would add some vitamin Ester-C to his diet also glucosamine/chondroitine helps with these issues. The neck is also more painful for them and harder to heal.
My problem is that he :cussing: HATES!!!!!!! to be locked up and he will not even eat treats (Mr. I will Poop 10 times a day to get 10 treats) when he is in the crate much less play with anything. Right now the valium has him calm and he is ok but quite out of it. (Well between the muscle relaxers and the valium that is) We have been dealing with the crate since Friday and we have been adamant that he stays in the crate except when we take him out to do his business. The doctor put him on a higher dose of steroids and muscle relaxers and added valium because Monday he was in even more pain and was not getting better. I think it is because of his agitation with being crated. We have had the crate in the middle of the living room and one of the kids will sit with him but he just barks and gets irritated that he is not out. We have tried to move and cover his crate so that he cannot hear us at home but Mr BIG ears can hear a pin drop and knows we are home and he will not stop barking. The barking involves movement of the head and you can tell it hurts him but he still does it. The valium keeps him calm but I do not know if there are consequences of using it long term especially with the muscle relaxers(4-6 weeks) and the vet wants to taper him off of the valium within the next week. He will stay on the muscle relaxers and the steroids longer. He is one to hold a long grudge so I am verrrrrrrryyyyy afraid of how he will pay us back once the crate rest is over. He cannot stand to be in his crate when there are people home and he will bark till he is hoarse. I'm concerned that the barking might be doing more damage to his neck even while being crated. I don't have a good way to keep him calm in the crate and it seems that that defeats the purpose of the crate rest!!! I am at a loss as to how to keep him from doing more damage. So far it is only pain and no nerve damage.
An X-Pen is also great. You can get them anywhere. You could sit it up in the kitchen/livingroom, put his crate in there, some water and a pee pad. Also sometimes confining them to a small space, like a bathroom and a baby gate will work.
Unfortunately I have had experience with ruptured cervical discs. Clifford had 2 discs rupture 6 weeks apart. He was recovering quite well from the 1st surgery where they cleaned out the area and fenestrated the discs they could. However, the 1 disc they could not get through the throat then ruptured. He recovered quite well and has only had a couple of pinched nerves in his neck of the last 5 years. The surgeon I went to is in Buffalo Grove, IL north of Chicago. You appear to be in the St. Louis area if I read the map correctly.
You mentioned in the other post that the vet(s) were not optimistic. What exactly did they say? I know that you have a family and these operations are not cheap. Have you ruled out surgery because of the cost?
I held off on his 1st surgery (for lumbar disc rupture) and tried to go the medication route, but at 11:00 pm and he was screaming and rigid from pain, I knew he couldn't take much more. Sometimes you just can't wait any longer.
Like the others say rest, our only incline to tthis was Emma got bitten by a paralytic tick and she had to be kept in a confined space so we created one around her bed and moved it where ever we went. She was (went to the bridge at 16) an ALPHHA by the sounds of it the same as champ, but ignoring helps to. It is for his own good.
Take care.
Roberta and da gang
A small ex-pen will work........But I believe in Crate Rest. Place the crate in a wagon and take Champ everywhere that you go in the wagon. In the crate give him a big knuckle bone to keep him busy. Also, frozen yogurt keeps them occupied. Please go back to Dodgers List and send a message out specifically for Guadalupe Rivera (or G as we lovingly call her)...she is the most knowledgable person on the list and will probably have some great advice and information for you. She has been gone to Europe for about a month but is now back on the list as of yesterday. Cervical IVDD is much more painful than any other area. On Dodgers I have read stories of great success with surgery for cervical IVDD. Care Credit is very helpful in paying for surgeries.
You mentioned in the other post that the vet(s) were not optimistic. What exactly did they say? I know that you have a family and these operations are not cheap. Have you ruled out surgery because of the cost?
With the Xrays and the examination it appears that the disk surgery does not have a good chance (Less that 30% chance of relieving the pain) due to the nature and the location of the disk problems. We have had Champ in the crate for the last three weeks and on steroids, muscle relaxers and Valium, none of which has helped. He is agitated in the crate and we are doing what we can to calm him down. The doctor seems to think the agitation is from the pain. He cries constantly when he is awake and has lost his ability to bark because of it. We had him at the vets, also a hospital, and he was on iv sedation, induced coma, so that he would relax. He was better for about 12 hours after we brought him home but he is back to the crying. the vet and the specialist both have told us with this in the neck and the severity that the operation may damage the nerves. right now they are not damaged but he is in pain. the surgery may not relieve the pain and they have told us that nerve damage during surgery could mean paralization and he could lose nerve function below the neck and that is no way for a dog to live. I have joined dodgers list but most of the information i received was about IVDD in the back which is much more common and more treatable with surgery and even with nerve damage in the back the dogs can lead a happy life. Nerve damage in the neck does not leave a good quality of life for the dog. This is Champs first time for the symptoms for the IVDD and it appears to be very sever and the doctors are wondering why he has not had an incident before. This is the only time we have had any evidence of pain or anyting that would indicate IVDD. We are at the largest dose of pain meds that either doctor wants to give him but there does not seem to be much relief. He has had injections in his neck of pain meds and steroids but those only give him temporary relief. he turns circles in his crate to try to get comfortable but it does not seem to work. I don't know what we will do. None of the options seem to have a good outcome.
I am very sorry to hear about poor Champ. Franky had 4 herniated discs in his neck and had surgery to remove three of the herniations. As Mike said in his post, we had an almost identical experience... tried meds and rest (per the Dr.....I wanted the surgery right away) but the pain got worse and worse until he was just screaming from pain and his neck would "lock-up" in awkward positions. DodgersList has lots of info on backs rather than necks because back problems are so much more prevalent than neck issues, but there are people on the board with experience. Another board is the Disabled Dachshund Society.... they helped me a great deal and the moderator had a doxie w/ cervical IVDD.
I am going to make some comments based on my personal experience and I'll be asking lots of questions, so please don't take me as being pushy. I am just really concerned for you and Champ and I know what you feel like...been there, done that. You mentioned Valium and muscle relaxers... what kind? Frank(both pre and post- op) needed Valium, methocarbamal (muscle relaxer) AND Tramadol (A narcotic pain reliever that is used on people too). He was on all three of these meds to control the pain and the combination of Tramadol and Methocarbamol seemed to work the best...AND the surgeon has Frank on morphine in the hospital.
Crate rest is critical either with or without surgery. Frank simply cannot be crated so we bought a small child's playpen (about $30) and it worked like a charm.... he had a little room but was confined and seemed more comfortable not being completely enclosed....plus we could easily wheel it anywhere.
What type or vet or specialist are you seeing? Does he/she have experience in IVDD?... Frank's surgery was done by a neuro/orthopedic surgeon, our family vet was convinced that Franks problems were caused by arthritis because she did not have enough info on IVDD of the neck.
You mentioned Xrays but did they do a myelogram or an MRI?
Franky's surgery was experimental because the surgeon had never before removed three consecutive discs.... the fourth and least bulging disc had to be left in place to provide some stability of his neck. His pain issues have been little to non-existant. He had some problems a few months afterwards as the vertebrae continued to heal and fuse together, they would sometimes pinch a nerve. He does get stiff and a little ouchie in the winter, but nothing major. We also were referred to a chiropractor which helped after he was healed. I do not understand why they told you that surgery might not relieve the pain??? The cause of pain is the bulging disc pressing on the nerves. They remove the disc and often fenestrate the other vertebrae in the area as a preventative measure. Often in cervical IVDD there is pain from muscular spasms caused by the pinching of nerves. You can try putting warm moist compresses on his neck. ( I used to wet a washcloth and microwave it for a few seconds, NOT too Hot!!) and wrap it around Frank's neck.
What about Adequan injections in his neck??
I would get a second opinion from another specialist.
I am sorry that I can only offer you the surgical perspective....
Hope I was able to help a little....
<<hugs>>
Dawn
Have you talked to a Holistic Vet about accupuncture? If nothing else please don't put him down, you can sign him over to a rescue and they will take care of him. Adequan shots are a great option-not very expensive for the series. Also adding Ester-C and glucosamine/chondroitine to his food will help.
Dawn,
I don't mind the questions at all.
1. You mentioned Valium and muscle relaxers... what kind?
I do not have the paperwork with me but the vets have been trying different combinations because they are not working to ease his pain and relax the muscles in his neck.
2. Crate rest is critical either with or without surgery.
We have him in his crate even though he is not happy about it. We have had him in there religiously except for potty time and when he was at the vet. We have moved the crate in the living room and removed the coffee table(not the best decorating look but it seems to make him less agitated.) He wants to be OUT!!! but we do not let him.
3. What type or vet or specialist are you seeing? Does he/she have experience in IVDD?
The specialist works specifically with small breed dogs with IVDD and other nerve issues.
4. You mentioned Xrays but did they do a myelogram or an MRI?
They did more that Xrays but i do not have the paperwork to know exactly what other imaging methods they used. The did find degeneration of some of the bones long with joint swelling. (Sorry for the lack of medical terms) That was the reason they did not think the surgury would be able to stop the pain. He does have the IVDD but the other problems are what they think will be problematic with the surgury.
The vets are still trying to find the right combination of meds to reduce the inflamation. I have not heard them talk about Adequan. Is that a steroid or pain med? How often are they given?
I will try the warm compresses to see if that might help.
Again thanks for the input and the reassuring words. I can't stand to see anyone in that kind of pain so I have been a little emotional. Right now
Champ is on a pain med that makes him so lethargic that he just lays in his crate and doesn't move. The vet is trying to taper down on this one quickly He is not in pain but its tough to see him just laying there looking so drugged. The vet did say that he may be "hung over" and have some symptoms of withdrawl from this one so I am assuming this one is an opiate (sp? I do remember that word from some of the conversations.)