Question on teeth

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 27, 2009, 12:35:53 PM

I have never had Hallie's teeth cleaned, I have always brushed, scraped and flossed them myself as I wanted to avoid putting her under to have it done. Her teeth have always looked pretty clean and when I have the vet check them she always says they look great (we see the vet every 3 weeks to get Hallie's allergy shot so luckily for me I get to have the little things checked out often.)

But I have been wondering about her teeth, she loves treats but will not eat a crunchy biscuit. It has to be broken up REALLY small for her to eat it. And when she does she tips her head up and her lips kind of go back as she chews so all her molars show. Maybe this is normal? But I wonder if she has teeth that bother her and that is why she is ruluctant to chew. On the other hand she has no problem gettin' down with a bully stick.

Also whenever she kisses me and has to tip her head up at all to do so, her jaw will "pop". It makes my butt pucker when she does that...she sometimes will flinch when it does that. Maybe doggie TMJ?

I would just feel really bad if she is having some tooth or jaw pain and I don't know it and it could be something that could be fixed and I was wondering if any of you have noticed anything similar with your babies or have any input?

Delia and girls · April 27, 2009, 04:47:05 PM

I know she's always had this but I never thought about her jaw. Can you manipulate her jaw without her flinching? I seems like if that was a problem, though, she'd have let you know it hurt when you were brushing, scraping and flossing her teeth. I've never heard of doggie TMJ but that, by no means, means it doesn't exist. And she definitely needs to work that jaw to gnaw on a bully stick. I really doubt it's her teeth because they look great. I dunno ... Will have to think on it.

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 27, 2009, 07:37:08 PM

Thanks Delia, I haven't really tried to manipulate her jaw other than opening her mouth to brush teeth and she seems to tolerate that well. It's very unsettling to hear that pop and see her jaw jerk ouch! Her teeth have gotten a bit behind on brushing and all so I need to really get in there again and I do notice her lower molars are yellower than they used to be but can't really brush those too well. I just would hate to ever have to take her and put her under for her teeth.

I guess I should have asked, does anyones doxies have trouble or are they reluctant to chew crunchy biscuits like this or can they eat them easily?

Roberta · April 27, 2009, 09:14:41 PM

Dee Dee she may have a very small mouth, so may not be able to cope with big bits, as Amy has difficulty with normal sized dry food. I mean manipulating it while in their mouth.
If they have a sore or loose tooth you would know about it, Emma blasted a tooth leaving the nerve exposed, Oliver had a loose one the other year, and he was not happy eating, so I ran my fingers over all his teeth and he was not happy at me touching the one in question.

roberta

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 28, 2009, 11:46:23 AM

That makes me feel a lot better Roberta. That means then that....Hallie is just a spoiled Princess! She needs her biscuits hand broken down to a proper Princess size. :thumb: We were at a fancy art gallery and the owner was so nice, I had Hallie in my arms and the lady had a box of dog biscuits under the counter. She got one out and I said thank you very much but she won't eat it unless it is broken into tiny bits, and the lady would break it up, Hallie would sniff and turn her head away real fast, I said sorry but has to be smaller, she did that about 6 times before it pleased her highness. Then she ate the whole thing.

Marcia from MI · April 28, 2009, 12:06:03 PM

Dee Dee Eddie Angel wouldn't eat medium biscuits unless they were broken in quarters AND he wouldn't eat the mini biscuits unless they were broken in half.

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 28, 2009, 10:26:58 PM

Awww sweet Eddie...he was "delicate" also!

Hallie acts disgusted if handed a crunchy too big, it has to be small crumb size (very small) before she'll even take it in her mouth, then she will eat bigger pieces after she gets a taste of the first and will usually eat the rest. Funny little dawgs we have.

Great to hear from you Marcia, how are you doing???

Brekkesmom · April 29, 2009, 07:22:30 AM

Tee hee, I know you mentioned this before, DD, but I never really thought about it too much. Brekke won't eat biscuits unless they are at least broken in half - unles they are very small to begin with. She has been known to do it if no one is watching, though, if she really likes the biscuit(s) in question. My little diva does not want an audience if she has to crunch one up - although she absolutely prefers the "you break it up for me" plan!

JetEd73 · April 29, 2009, 07:28:42 AM

when I have my dog put under anestesia I have the vet do the full blood work up. This way they have all the info they need to put them under safely.

sollysmom · April 29, 2009, 09:33:34 AM

Dee Dee, it's sound like SRSP to me. :scratch: Of course we all know SRSP stands for Spoiled Rotten Sweet Princess Syndrome. While it isn't fatal, it is a lifetime condition. Hope this is helpful.

Darcel

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 29, 2009, 12:43:19 PM

LOL good to know Brekke is a sister Princess.

The "peel a grape for me" mentality indeed! :thumb: Much rather have that than a real tooth problem. You GO Brekke!

That is a good thing to do for sure JetEd. Yet there is always a risk and it's such a scary and miserable thing to put them through unless absolutely necessary, I was able to keep my last 2 kids clean enough on my own, my Dane and standard longhair doxie, I'm doing OK with Hallie too so far, she does let me scrape with a dental tool but her mouth is so much smaller, it's hard to get to the back teeth and her lips are soooo tight. My Dane was super easy you just fold back the big lip and lay it there and all his teeth were exposed!

I just got to worrying with Hallie (since I just didn't have quite enough to worry about already heh) that maybe a tooth was bothering her and I needed to get it looked at. I will ask the vet next week though when we go in for her every 3 week allergy shot if she could reach in there and take a look.

ROTFL Darcel. Yes that does help...if only we had come to you first we could have saved a lot of time

. How are you with doxie backs and human stomachs the vets and docs (dox!) sure haven't been successful with her or I so far LOL!

sollysmom · April 29, 2009, 01:37:46 PM

Quote from: Dee Dee and Hallie on April 29, 2009, 12:43:19 PM

ROTFL Darcel. Yes that does help...if only we had come to you first we could have saved a lot of time . How are you with doxie backs and human stomachs the vets and docs (dox!) sure haven't been successful with her or I so far LOL!

I am sorry to say that back and tummy's are not my forte. Being an owner/companion of a Princess myself now and previously is how I came to understand the SRSP Syndrome. Sorry I couldn't help you on the other problems.

Darcel

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 30, 2009, 11:09:35 AM

LOL Darcel well you got the most important one, I'll have to tell Hallie's vet about SRSP I'm betting that isn't in her vet books!

David C. · April 30, 2009, 06:36:57 PM

I was able to keep Rudy-angel from having a dental until he was 10 or 11 by staying on top of his teeth care. However, even with the best dental care by us hoomans, the time comes where they are going to need to go under for a thorough teeth cleaning. I'm a bit ashamed to admit that I haven't been as religious with the Zs teeth as I was with Rudy & Max. They, so far, have been unable to avoid having dentals on an annual basis. I may be able to stretch them to two years if I was a bit more on top of it.

When Rudy was just a pup, the vet told me the number one thing you could do to prolong your dog's life was to take care of their teeth.

Dee Dee and Hallie · April 30, 2009, 08:27:54 PM

That is great to get to 10-11 years with Rudy. I agree about the importance of keeping their teeth clean for their overall health. I am going to have her vet take a good look next week on her allergy shot visit and tell me what she thinks. I'd never forgive myself if more was going on in there than I realized and she had problems with it.

LUVMYGUNNER · May 01, 2009, 06:02:44 PM

You could get whats called Petzlife or Leballl, good products to use on teeth. I have always heard that if the teeth are scaled they should also be sealed. I know my vet scales under the gumlines and also seals the teeth.

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 01, 2009, 07:25:26 PM

I tried to google LeBalll but it couldn't find it (maybe spelled wrong?) but the Petzlife sounds awesome! I've never heard of that. I think I will get some and try it. I also didn't know about sealing the teeth after scaling, is this up around the gum line? Do you use Petzlife on your kids and if so for how long and how did it work for you? I suppose grapefruit seed extract (I think is what I read) must be safe for them...I'm wondering if the gel might be better tolerated for her than the spray.

thanks so much for that info!

LUVMYGUNNER · May 02, 2009, 06:49:50 PM

I use Petzlife and love it, you can get the best bargain at www.petedge.com I got both the spray and the gel--for the gel I use a soft baby toothbrush, if you get the spray cover her eyes so you don't get anything in them. I bought the regular flavor and mine love it.... I love the spray on days when I'm lazy..... I will get the link for LebaIII---- the link is working... When a vet cleans the teeth, he goes under the gum lines to get impacted food out, then they are sealed. If you scale and do not seal they are more prone to cavities and problems with their teeth..
http://www.lebalab.com/

Road To Dental Health Ahead

Introducing LEBA III
Dental product for dogs and cats

LEBA III balances the chemistry of the mouth keeping the teeth clean and healthy
for the entire life of your pet, without side effects.
The key to a long healthy life is balance.
Products that kill the bacteria have an antibiotic action, damaging the environment of the mouth.
The safety and efficacy of LEBA III was proven by a renowned university
and has been used by veterinarians since 1994.

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 04, 2009, 01:51:06 AM

This is such great info Irma thank you SO much. Hallie will be relieved to not have to be scraped so often. She is very good but does not like it. Thanks!!

papbouv · May 04, 2009, 08:39:01 AM

If the dog acts tipsy both the Petz Life (grain alcohol) the Leba Labs Inc ( Ethyl alcohol) guess it is like mouth wash for humans the only thing is dogs cannot spit.Was surprised to see Grain Alcohol too much of that causes blindness in humans same thing as Moonshine.Since Patches last dental was $220.00 with no teeth pulled just a cleaning I try to brush her teeth everyday or at least three times a week.Also put that stuff in their water can't remember the name of it.They also make the chew sticks that clean teeth the Vet uses them.May try the Petz might be easier at present I use a Braun oral care tooth brush with the battery in it has a small round soft head works really well.It is really hard to get to the back teeth with those tight lips usually get my fingers chewed on when trying to hold her mouth open. Seems like the bigger dogs do not have as much problems with their teeth.Buddy has the biggest teeth I have ever seen on a dog huge teeth.Hope he never gets mad at anything.

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 04, 2009, 12:40:26 PM

Oh yikes OK I do not need to see a drunk Hallie. LOL. I had wondered if an electric brush might work but my sonicare has the big head. That's a good idea about the braun I didn't know they came in small heads. I will try using my brush on her front teeth to see how well she will tolerate it. (I hear gagging...I mean when I'm ready to switch it to a new one :thumb: ) Is it CET you use? Some vet we saw gave me that for her teeth but it's over a year old now (and I had never used it but meant to, I'm always afraid to try something new) so I don't know if it's expired or not (expiration date was blank on it). I agree the big dog teeth are a lot easier to get to and work on. I can't picture Buddy getting too mad at anything he looks so sweet.

papbouv · May 04, 2009, 09:42:27 PM

Have been using the Braun tooth brush when I had my Papillon Gizmo she was little 7 # so it works much better on Patches bigger mouth.The little round brush was soft I think made for a child. Good Luck Brushing

scootersmom · May 05, 2009, 10:48:17 AM

For what it's worth, I use CET on Scooter, and it came highly recommended by the Vet Dentist Specialist Smartypants Doctor...of course, you may want to take any knowledge I have with a grain of salt, as I cannot seem to keep Scooter's teeth IN his mouth no matter what I do. *sigh*

However! My friend David's dog, Sparky, insists on having his treats broken into the teensiest little bits - and his teeth are perfectly healthy. He too loves a good bully stick. Perhaps certain pups just enjoy being dainty and tidy.

I'm really glad you asked this question, though, as now I have two new products to check out/try - Petzlife and that LebaIII -

Oh! And I echo everyone's sentiments on how darn difficult it is to brush those back lower molars. GOOD GRIEF - the amount of time my fingers spend poked down in poor Scooter's cheeks (Scooter: NO KIDDING) - thank goodness he's a very patient boy.

I'm actually wondering if I could get away with using an electric toothbrush on him. I'm desperate to try and save his few remaining teethies!

papbouv · May 05, 2009, 09:28:24 PM

If you do the battery tooth brush let him check it out, put doggie toothpaste on it ,do not turn it on yet just do one tooth per day until you get them all.Then start over turn it on do the same thing all over again by then he should be OK with it.Good Luck
I bought Gizmo's Braun battery brush years ago but I think they still make them they have the little round head fits better when trying to do the back toothies.Know when Gizmo died just took it a part cleaned it up new batteries found new brush heads at Walgreen's.Papbouv

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 06, 2009, 02:26:23 AM

That is such a good idea Papbouv I will look for a braun for Hallie. Great idea! I am also going to look for the products Irma suggested.

Hey Noel and Scooter!! I'd love to hear if you try the Petz Life too, and the braun toothbrush on Scootie. Do you happen to know the shelf life of the CET? I will call the vet and ask, just my luck it wasn't stamped on the box. (I also have a home urine strip kit much to the chagrin of my vet who I pummel with questions everytime anything may be a little off..

)

How is Scooter doing with his less-teefies mouth?

LOL. Dainty and tidy indeed!

Teresa · May 06, 2009, 08:33:17 AM

I plan to get the Petzlife this week and try it on Schatzi. She is a perfect candidate for it and I should be able to see results. If it doesn't make a difference on her, then I'll schedule a dental for her at the end of the summer.

scootersmom · May 06, 2009, 03:46:38 PM

DD! I will check my CET tonight and see if there's an expiration date on it. (I have the toothpaste and the mouth rinse) I will work backwards from when I bought it and see if I can figure a shelf life.

I'm going to call up a local holistic vet and ask her her opinion on Petzlife. I will definitely let you know what I find out, and any results I have with Scooter! He is doing just fine with his silly old gummy mouth, thanks.

He loves his Wellness canned food and all the little soft cheese bits he gets as treats. He does NOT love me brushing and scaling his (few remaining) teeth daily and squirting in his mouth with the mouthwash. He sulks a lot at me for that, and gives me lots of sad "MOMMY WHY YOU TORTURE ME?" looks. *sigh*

I'd really love to get a good picture of Scooter with his bottom two fangs sticking outside his lips. It's both hilarious and adorable. Perhaps I can magically transport you and Hallie here to take the photo? I do have deep admiration for your mad picture-taking skills. *looks fondly at DD-taken photo of Scooter at Mt. Ranier sitting on desk*

Scooter would like me to pass along his love and kisses to Ms. Hallie.

scootersmom · May 08, 2009, 09:57:59 AM

DD, I checked my CET dental rinse, and its expiration date is September of this year. I've had this bottle for several months alredy, so it looks like the shelf life is at least a year. I have no expiration date on the toothpaste. However - I am going to go buy different stuff - some special tartar-control variation, and I will ask the vet when I buy it how long it lasts. Will keep you posted!

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 09, 2009, 12:28:11 AM

Thanks for checking that Noel! I don't think it's been much more than a year. I will give it a try.Will be curious if you try the petzlife too I plan to find some too. I had the vet look at Hallie's teeth today and she said it wasn't bad but it's the worst her teeth have ever been I let it get out of hand when she was resting her back because I didn't want to have her straining while I was working on her teeth. The vet got some of it off today but Hallie let out a yelp once and I said to stop I will work on it myself she trusts me more.

Ohhh Scoot Man...I can just see his little toofless grin! You are a good Mom working so hard on his remaining teeth. Seems some are more prone to losing teeth than others no matter what you do! I sure do wish you could transport him for an Auntie DD photo shoot. That would be more than fun! How can so many years have passed so quickly since we got these guys.

Hallie sends neck nibbles back to Scooter!

LUVMYGUNNER · May 11, 2009, 05:03:54 PM

I belong to a couple of other boards and everyone used Petzlife with no problem. Leba is also good also. I took paper work on both to my vet... and he approves it, especially for older dogs especially, he even put the paper work in Gunner/Petunia's folder and he is an orthopetic surgeon/vet. Gunner just had back surgery and I use it on him,,,, and the vet is very pleased with his teeth. I would never give him anything that would hurt him. It has no alcohole smell or anything...I also would never recomment anything that some of the people on these other boards use--they are fanatical about homopathic, holistic products--they check everything out and research it..Some have checked it out with their holistic vets... before they use it.... There are some people on dodgerslist that also use it...I also use a Natural toothpaste.. that smells like vanilla a few times a week, I use a soft baby toothbrush. You can also buy a blue liquid that goes in their drinking water to cut down on tartar. CET uses xylitol in theirs... so watch for the ingredients, I bought some from my vet and when I checked the ingredients i told the office manager and they pulled it--not sure if they took out the xylitol since then. I buy mine blue liquid at a Hay and Feed Store.

For those that are questioning petzlife: Hope this helps...
http://www.petzlife.com/productsafety.html

I know people that use Rescue Remedy on their dogs, before the alcohole free one came out, for pets, with no problem.

Best deal on the Petzlife is at www.petedge.com

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 11, 2009, 07:11:14 PM

QuoteI took paper work on both to my vet... and he approves it, especially for older dogs especially

Did you mean the petzlife or the Leba? I will definitely get some for Hallie. Thanks so much!

edit: I just ordered the petzlife gel...here's hopin'! I had the vet check Hallie's teeth when she got her shot Friday and she said they weren't bad but there was tarter (to me they looked bad as they are the worst they've been for her) The vet scraped a fair amount off (it's harder when the tarter is thin...when it's thick it comes off in a big chunk but Hallie's is very thin yet) and Hallie was so good but at one point she let out a yelp...Hallie doesn't yelp for hardly anything so I made her stop. I will work on it here at home. Anxious to try the petzlife.

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 11, 2009, 07:43:39 PM

Teresa I missed your post! Did you get some for Schatzi? Will be very interested to see how it works for you, did you get gel or spray?

LUVMYGUNNER · May 11, 2009, 09:21:04 PM

I took papers on the Petzlife and Leba. But since I haven't used the Leba, I don't know how it works. There are 4 girls on different boards, that just bought the Leba and they also like it. One is a friend from another board, and she also belongs to dodgerslist--her dog also had back surgery in October--she also researches everything... and I know she would not use it... if it was bad for her dogs. She does a lot of traveling for agility--so i'm sure the Leba is discussed.

papbouv · May 11, 2009, 09:54:33 PM

Gizmo lost one tooth she was my first little dog always had big dogs before her. My vet told me little dogs have mor problems with their teeth than the big dogs so thats when I started brushing Gizmo's teeth never lost any more teeth after that. My vet also said sometimes it just depends on gentics of the dog too

April · May 20, 2009, 02:05:20 PM

Cajsa and Gretchen are 6 (this past Feb!) and have never had their teeth cleaned. I did notice that both of them have gotten some tarter on the main back molar teeth and I think it looks pretty bad. I could get some of it off Cajsa's teeth on my own, but Gretchen I'm not so trusting. I would want her to be under since she will bite if you mess with her mouth in a way she doesn't like. Cajsa will just turn her head or lick you to get you to stop something. Different personalities though. I'm honestly not sure if Gretchen would let me brush her teeth since it's taken nearly 3 years for her to let me LOOK at them without snapping.

Teresa · May 20, 2009, 09:20:14 PM

Dee Dee, I haven't gotten to PetSmart, but will be going by there tomorrow. I have to go that way to run a ton or errands and it is on my list. As for the gel or spray, I'm going with the gel. I'm still debating between the regular gel and the one that is flavored with salmon oil. That may be better for Schatzi since she loves Salmon and Tuna (at least the real kind!). I'll let you know how she does tomorrow evening or Friday morning.

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 21, 2009, 01:35:57 AM

Great Teresa I'll be curious to hear how it goes. I almost ordered the salmon but I always question the mercury thing...it's probably fine though and I"m sure makes it more palatable!

I have heard that about little dogs too Papbouv and I agree that genetics probably play a big role also.

Thanks Luvmygunner, I have confidence in this product now. Ours came in the mail today! We'll try it tomorrow. Hallie says the biggest problem is that she can't eat or drink a half hour before or half hour after using it...she never goes that long without eating. LOL! (at least she wishes she didn't have to!)

April I think too that sometimes when it's that hard to brush their teeth you do just have to bite the bullet and take them in for a dental. It took me about 3-4 months before Hallie would let me do much to her teeth in the beginning, she'd never bite of course but she didnt' understand what I was doing and would pull back, I just took it real slow. Now I'm trying to get her to let me open her mouth and to keep it open so I can brush the lower molars! :thumb: That may take some time yet lol. She is really good but won't keep her mouth open for more than a few seconds yet and I would never force her so this will take some time too.

scootersmom · May 21, 2009, 09:09:46 AM

DD, I am glad to hear your Petzlife has arrived! I have a bottle of the spray at home (the nice lady at the store where I bought it swears by it - she uses it on her rescue Greyhound, and the owners of the store use it on their Dachsies); I just haven't used it yet because now I'm worried about drug interaction with the CET mouthwash (I worry a LOT, in case anyone hasn't noticed). I've been looking all over the Internets for any complaints about using both Petzlife and CET and haven't found any, which is somewhat reassuring. I just wonder if I should stop using the CET mouthwash when I start trying the Petzlife (I will keep using the toothpaste, though). Anyway - I look forward to hearing how the Petzlife works out for Hallie! (Sweet baby girl. Scooter sends kisses!!)

Poor Scooter, he is none too happy to have his lower molars brushed but those are exactly the ones the Vet Dentist told me to focus on, as that's where his bone graft is. If only you knew how much time my fingers spend buried in his mouth...or how sad he looks with his little cheeks all stretched out and a toothbrush stuck down in them. Thank goodness he is a Patient Boy!

Luvmygunner - thank you so much for your reassuring recommendation about Petzlife - hearing these firsthand experiences are so helpful for me!

Dee Dee and Hallie · May 21, 2009, 11:00:34 AM

That is a good question about the CET and Petzlife together. I never did use the CET, but I don't think I'd use both together either. Maybe you could stop the CET and use the Petzlife for a few weeks and if it does the job you won't need the CET and if it doesn't you could stop it and go back to the CET. I'll let you know how it goes with Hallie too I will start it this morning I wanted to do it on a morning when the vet is open...just in case! I started her on dogzymes yesterday morning, digestive enzymes to hopefully help her tummy issues. I didn't want to start both at the same time in case she got symptoms so we'd know which it was from.

I hate that life has dealt you enough blows that you worry! You had such a lucky run with Sparky, like I did with my Sam, I never worried back then either wasn't that nice! That will never happen again lol. But I guess worrying is part of a Mom's job... :thumb:

scootersmom · May 21, 2009, 03:27:16 PM

I will do just that! I like the way you think.

And I was also planning to give Scooter his first dose of Petzlife when I'd be around to keep my eye on him for the day! Heh. One cannot be too careful, I feel. I am looking forward to hearing how things go with Hallie, both with the dogzymes and the Petzlife.

We were both pretty lucky at one time with our pups' health, weren't we? Thank goodness for Sparky and Sam...