Ms H and Mom please update

[cheryl186]

Oh Dee Dee....I wish I knew more about what they are saying could be wrong with Hallie.  I think the doctor is saying that Hallie needs an MRI so you can determine why the spinal cord is dialated, correct?  Too bad the good doctor could not make a trip to you to examine Hallie herself.  That would be awesome.  I think it is wonderful that she is talking to you and giving you advice.  What are the differences in the two types of syringomyelia?  I am continuing to pray for you both....and Dee Dee I do wish we lived closer because I think we both need a stiff drink or something...haha...I still have some valium left over from the first night we took Zoe to the Care Center.  Hahaha....I would like to post more on your information from Dr. Rusbridge and I will do that tomorrow when I am at work.  It is 9:10pm here and I am totally exhausted from today's events.  It is mental stress, I know you understand.  Zoe is at home now and FINALLY sleeping in her crate.  She is taking Dexamethasone 1/2 tab three times a day for five days right now and then we go through a step down process with it along with Methocarbamol 500 mgs 1/4 tab every 8 hours and Pepcid as a tummy protector.  I have to get up at 2am to give her the next round of pills.  Take care of yourself and continued prayers to you and Hallie so you both will feel much better....Until tomorrow, God Bless you both, Cheryl

[Sandishooligans]

Total and heartfelt rays and prayers coming to both my of good friends, DD and Hallie Berry Butt.

[Teresa]

Dee Dee, I really feel encouraged by the things Dr. Rusbridge is saying. It seems that she things the dilation is from the disc doing something, or something other than the serious form of syringomella. From the beginning, most of Hallie's symptoms didn't fit the typical syringomella profile. Could the disc be just starting to cause a problem, and not severe yet. I wonder if it is just putting enough pressure occasionally to cause the swelling but not enough to cause the neuro signs. I think that if she shows the symptoms again, even if she is better by the time she sees the neuro, I would go ahead and get the MRI. It is going to be the only way you will have any kind of an answer, or close to an answer.
I think you can show your neuro the reply you got from Dr Rusbridge without him being bothered by it. He has to know you are going to research as much as possible about this. She says a lot of what he has about it not being the same as the King Charles Spaniels.
I hope Hallie keeps feeling better. I also hope you get some good results from your visits this month. Take care of yourself.

[cheryl186]

Dee Dee, could it be similar to Zoe's situation where the disc is bulging and hitting the nerves that run alongside the spinal cord and not compressing the spinal cord?  Zoe is passing all the neurological exams normally ( :xfinger:) so far but was in extreme pain and that is what they think is causing it????

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

I had hopes for the disc solution too but then I keep wondering if it made sense why don't any of the neuros we've talked to think that is the case? There must be something atypical still for them to not go to the disc conclusion first. Cheryl, I believe the myelogram would have shown if there was a herniation pressing on the nerves at the time so she had pain withouth any obvious herniations etc which worries me.

Here is the latest from Dr. Rusbridge. Now I am more worried than ever. I googled inflammatory spinal disease and that sounds like the worst case scenario. Hallie feels good today it seems again which is great. But I worry with every movement. I just wish we could get relief with a definitive answer that has a very promising outcome! I wouldn't want to do a spinal tap at this point I think I'd go with the MRI first less invasive.

I think we will just be guessing (especially me) at the cause of Hallie's pain without 1) results from the spinal tap (sometimes called CSF analysis) and / or a MRI scan. Pain from syringomyelia is much more likely if there is a wide syrinx (usually 4mm or more) - not just a dilated central canal. I would also err on the side of caution - if myelogram contrast finds its way into the central canal because of a  lumbar injection then the central canal can be dilated due to the contrast being pushed in not because it was a syrinx (if that makes sense). Also some small dogs just have a dilated central canal with no ill effects.
To me if disc disease is ruled out this sounds more like an inflammatory process  - which I have certainly seen before in a dachshund (which coincidently was a very challenging case presenting like a disc but finding only slight swelling in the L1 region - eventually diagnosed with a combination of myelogram, MRI, CSF and biopsy). Inflammatory spinal diseases respond to steroids and I wonder if the recurrence coincided with the steroids being withdrawn / wearing off?  Inflammatory diseases are less likely to be able to respond to gabapetnin alone. If you get a response to gabapentin alone then this is more likely to be a structural problem like a disc or syringomyelia
However really I am making an educated guess from the clues you are giving me. I really think that if the back pain persists you need to do a more further investigation.

[Teresa]

I'm heading back to work, but look back at January 07 and beyond at Kari's posts, the ones after penny's surgery. Isn't that what she had/has. It was controlled and seems to be controlled today. I think hers flared up in February, March. If Kari sees this, she'll be able to tell you for sure.

[Kari]

Penny's spinal cord was inflamed because her immune system was attacking it (inflammatory focal myelitis). We treated this with steroids, chemotherapy drugs and pain killers. It is always something that could come back (and did flare up late last year). She will never be cured but only in remission. I'll post a link with more information just in case. Within this post WW Post about Penny there is information at her condition. Please let me know if i can help you in any way.

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

I was thinking of Penny too Teresa, thanks for the date...and thanks Kari for posting the link as I wasn't able to find it. I do wonder if it is the same thing. I know Penny had one weak back leg with her pain was that all? (not that that's not more than enough!) Hallie has had no neuro defecits so I don't know how much of a clue that is. I can't find much on this when I google focal inflammatory myelitis in dogs...has Penny been normal except for on setback and when was that? I get mored worried about this as time goes on. Hallie has not regressed when weaned off the steroids each time. The only problem we had there was in Feb when she had a dexa shot and then nothing the next day, and the following morning she had pain again (that is when we went to the neuro in Oregon). Yet several things do sound similar to Penny's case. Do you have to curtail her activities (beyond what we normally do for doxies) and how old was she when this first showed up with her?

[Kari]

I was thinking of Penny too Teresa, thanks for the date...and thanks Kari for posting the link as I wasn't able to find it. I do wonder if it is the same thing. I know Penny had one weak back leg with her pain was that all? (not that that's not more than enough!) Hallie has had no neuro defecits so I don't know how much of a clue that is. I can't find much on this when I google focal inflammatory myelitis in dogs...has Penny been normal except for on setback and when was that? I get mored worried about this as time goes on. Hallie has not regressed when weaned off the steroids each time. The only problem we had there was in Feb when she had a dexa shot and then nothing the next day, and the following morning she had pain again (that is when we went to the neuro in Oregon). Yet several things do sound similar to Penny's case. Do you have to curtail her activities (beyond what we normally do for doxies) and how old was she when this first showed up with her?

Penny had just turned 4 when the it originally happened. Unfortunately we never were able to find out the cause of it...still a mystery. She had the neurological signs because it was so swollen it was causing the neuro deficit in her rear leg. The is little to no information on the internet about this in canines which was SO frustrating...it is pretty rare. She had a setback in November of 2007 about 11 months after original diagnosis. She was on all the medication about a total of 10 months...tapering here and there and finally taking her off of it all (so scary). Penny has never been a jumper, she uses her ramps and we carry her upstairs. For a long time I was afraid to let her do anything, but now she is back to her normal routine. We go on long walks and she plays with her toys. We don't let her around other dogs for the most part because we don't want her to get stepped on or tussled. Also she can't have any vaccines so we don't want her catching anything. She does play with my parent's beagle but Molly is pretty gentle and submissive. I am also so scared when we go on vacation that something will happen when we aren't there. My parents are the only people ever that we allow to watch her because the lived through the surgery and problems with us and understand the magnitude of the situation. Other than the one setback she has been completely normal although we watch her like a hawk and at the sign of anything abnormal we take her in to see the neuro. Hope this helps!

[Dee Dee and Hallie]

That is good news Kari. Is she on any meds at all right now? I am afraid this sounds so similar to Hallie and it does scare me to death...but all of it has scared me to death. I am weaning her off her drugs now too which as you say is a stressful time. Just hate this stuff. :( Thanks for your input though and you are right there really is so little info out there on this.

[Kari]

That is good news Kari. Is she on any meds at all right now? I am afraid this sounds so similar to Hallie and it does scare me to death...but all of it has scared me to death. I am weaning her off her drugs now too which as you say is a stressful time. Just hate this stuff. :( Thanks for your input though and you are right there really is so little info out there on this.

She isn't on any meds for the inflammation/back problem anymore. She is on one med because she has vasculites (sp?) in her ears (dermatological problem) and we have to manage it. She had the vasculites before her back problems and it went away (apparently it is common in doxies), but it seems that it has flared up and stayed as a result of the other medications she was on for her back inflammation!  :verdict:

I can relate to being scared...every day we weened her off the meds I just waited to hear that scream of pain from her. I have to say that I will never forget her "screaming" in pain as Drew held her in the ER...I can still hear it. We do watch her closely since she is only in "remission". I hope that Hallie can get a clear diagnosis - it seems so hard to get since these problems are so rare in the puppers.

[Doxherding Karen]

 :thinik: Hmmm . . .

Just a thought:

Is this a dachshund thing?  Or is it a small breed problem?  Has anyone checked with Doxie breeders?

Hope all is well.

Love and rays from Karen and The "Faux" Herd

"Speakin' of phony dachshunds, Auntie Karen, you ain't talkin' 'bout me an' Guinness, are ya?"

"No, Roscoe dear, I'm not talking about you two."

[sollysmom]

Oh Dee Dee, so much to think about and try to figure out.  I am praying for you and Hallie everyday and hope that something comes of all this for you.  Know that your not only in my prayers, but everyone here on WW.  Keep on keeping us posted on how Miss Hallie is doing.    coming your way.

Darcel

[papbouv]

I do hope Hallie can get a MRI usually shows everything going on I have Spinal Stenosis where there is a narrowing on my spinal cord due to a disk  herniation + I have 2 bulging disks all showed up on the MRI I have had 2 MRI's. Since they think Hallie's is swelling would think a anti inflammatory maybe something that could be taken more long term than Pred.Do not think they will really know what is going on until the MRI is done at least they would have a different view on it other than the mylogram.Pred is such a bad drug I hate any one or animal to have to take it my sister was on it for a year now has Diabetes from it. Veterinaries sure like to use it from skin problems to back problem s I'm sure it has its place in human & animals medicine.
Sending Huge Rays & Hugs to you both.
Papbouv